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resident samsquamch
 
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Quote:
It would be good to see a tally of which pump is replaced most often due to failure (not troubleshooting).
Perhaps the stuff of internet legend, but I think it's the front pump.

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Old 10-30-2008, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamchappy View Post
Funny my fuel pressure gauge reads 100 psi with it. And many are using it like myself without having fuel delivery problems.
+1. AFR's on my car were just fine with a '77 S fuel pump. I replaced it for peace of mind (it was noisy). Brand new 044 sounded exactly the same. Ho hum. Least it wasn't 30 years old...

IIRC, CIS system pressure on my car read 95 PSI with a single 044.

In fact, it was too rich mid-range so the Brian Leaske WUR got the WCP dropped .5 bar. It ran 330 RWHP on the dyno with good AFR's.

I think Bosch ratings are conservative minimums.

Many tuners report the 044 flows closer to 400 lp/h in EFI applications (lower pressure) than 300. The same people say that Wallbro 300 lp/h pumps flow 300 lp/h. Maybe..

Quote:
How does the 044 Compare to a stock 930 pump.
Well, at $200 US brand spanking new, they're sure a lot cheaper (economies of scale).

They certainly look (at least to me) to exceed factory specs for flow, and maintain control pressures without any problem. If you're concerned about the system pressure, you could raise it by running two 044's for less than the price of a single stock pump.

[quote[I suppose the pressure rating of 72.5 psi is based on flowing 80 GPH unrestricted, not the flow rate of what the engine demands.[/QUOTE]

That makes sense. Also, manufacturers flow/pressure ratings are NOT based on gasoline, but heptane according to the spec sheet.
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Old 11-01-2008, 10:54 AM
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$200 ?

Where can one find a new 044 for $200.00? EPS
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Old 11-02-2008, 06:20 AM
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I have an 044 in the rear and a 984 up front and that's for an EFI motor with SERIOUS fuel demand...and uh...yeah I paid a bit more than $200 for an 044...much more...just FYI.

I'm just always in awe of how much ya'll know about every aspect of these cars...I feel stupid when I read these posts...big thumbs up to the group.
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Old 11-02-2008, 06:56 AM
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here it is for $189, new from fuel pump king in miami

Quote:
Originally Posted by e p slick View Post
Where can one find a new 044 for $200.00? EPS
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PORSCHE-BOSCH-0580254044-GENUINE-FUEL-PUMP-911-928-930_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713Q2em153Q2el1262 QQcategoryZ33555QQihZ024QQitemZ370094546982
I've seen 4 of them hooked up in parallel on chassis #962104.
The car would run fine on 1 or 2 fuel pumps in parallel, but 4 were installed and running by the swap shop team during endurance races just in case 1 or even 2 of the pumps broke during the race.
That car was always in contention to win the Florida IMSA races with Bob Wolleck at the wheel.
They had 2 red motronics boxes mounted on the bulkhead to the left of the driver for same reason. If one failed during a 12 or 24 hour race, the driver could undo his belts, reach over and unplug the wiring harness from one box and plug it into the other and continue on.
Old 11-02-2008, 07:27 AM
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fuel pump

I'm not sure the Fuel Pump King sells real BOSCH. I have had a couple from him and they have no markings or orgin stampings. I guess they are Chinese or similar. As a matter of fact I just returned one last week after having used only since May of this year. Don't know how someone could sell expensive top of the line Bosch for $200.00.

EPS
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Old 11-02-2008, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e p slick View Post
I'm not sure the Fuel Pump King sells real BOSCH.
Dunno about him (although he might actually be where I bought mine from, I forget), but there are many places selling the Bosch 044 for $200 to $225. Google is your friend.

My 044 pump has Bosch markings and part #'s and came in a Bosch box. Also says "Made in Czechoslovakia" on it. Blame globalization.

QC seems just fine. It's done over 12,000 miles so far. No worries.

Quote:
Don't know how someone could sell expensive top of the line Bosch for $200.00.
Because these were fitted to Ford Cosworths back in the day, currently used by WRX cars and Rice Tuners and they sell about 10,000 times as many of these as they do for the 930-specific part. Economies of scale.

Partly why Bosch initiated their "Universal Fuel Pump" program some years ago - so they can narrow their range and supply a fuel pump that'll work for the car instead of making a "one year only" pump for some obscure model and having to charge silly money to make it worth their while tooling up to produce it for about 10 minutes (which generates stock it'll take them about 50 years to sell)...

Edit: Try these links (I'm only posting these as our host doesn't sell this item - maybe someone should ask Wayne to look into this):

http://www.jayracing.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1
http://boschfuelpumps.com/
http://www.rx7store.net/product_p/bosch044.htm
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com/performance_parts/index.html?item=1092
http://enjukuracing.com/bosch-fuel-pump-porsche-996tt-p-8453.html

The 044 isn't a free lunch. You'll need to change fuel line fittings, the electrical connectors are larger diameter, and it's rated as drawing up to 13 Amps in normal usage, so uprating the stock fuse is also necessary.
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Last edited by spuggy; 11-02-2008 at 11:56 AM.. Reason: Added links
Old 11-02-2008, 11:44 AM
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found this while searching for the bosch 044 pump. pelican now carries it, though it costs more;
Pelican Parts - European Automotive Parts and Accessories - Porsche • BMW • Mercedes • Volkswagen • Audi • Saab • Volvo • MINI
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Old 08-08-2014, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sand_man View Post
According the the Factory Workshop Manual for a stock engine, both pumps running, the electric fuel pump delivery rate is:


From 1978 model: at least 1170cc/30sec.
1986 model Type 930/68: 1500cc/30sec.


The control pressure circuit delivery rate is 160 to 240cc per minute

I'm terrible with the metric system. So maybe someone else could use this data to match a single fuel pump capable of delivering these specs?
the first 2 pressures are out of the return of the fuel head to the tank. most fuel pump specs are just what the pump can deliver.
i have done several tests on my pumps. one was fuel volume going into the FD. that was around 2000cc/30sec(cant remember for sure. it may have been more but definately not less). the other was fuel volume OUT of the head. that was 1500cc. minimum for my pump.
i also did a pressure test with just the front pump. around 6bar, maybe a little less. rear pump pressure only was around 4 bar.

i have an 86 but i have all euro CIS. i dont know what front pump i have but the rear pumps are all the same. i am thinking that maybe the different flow rates may be due to the fuel heads and not the pumps.

control pressure volume is from the head to the WUR. mine was right at 200cc.
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Old 08-08-2014, 10:26 AM
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You can find 044 pumps on amazon for $139 shipped right now but I have my doubts they are real ones...
Old 08-08-2014, 10:35 AM
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One way to know for certain which pump works the most is to measure the current draw from each.

History of fuse panel failures with the 930 proves an upgrade to (2) fuses and HD relays like the 32amp Hella is advisable.

Len

Old 08-09-2014, 08:09 AM
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I'll try to post a pic later of what one of those eBay 044's did to a 30amp blade fuse... It's not pretty.
Yup, I bit the bullet and bought a new OEM rear pump that's sitting in the garage waiting for me to install and sacrifice the "markings correct cheap 044 off eBay" pump.
Lesson learned, if it's too good to be true, it probably isn't.
Old 08-09-2014, 08:21 AM
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My car has had twin-044's for years pushing over 100PSI under boost.
Old 08-09-2014, 08:23 AM
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My car is currently "under the knife" and we are planing on using only one Bosch 044 (in the front) on a mildly tuned 3.3l (about 330/350 RWHP). I would like to know what should be the reasonable limit, in terms of RWHP, that a single Bosch 044 can handle. Anybody has a clue? Thanks!
Mathieu
Old 08-09-2014, 10:01 AM
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There is a reason Porsche went to dual fuel pumps in series for a Turbo. The CIS runs at a much higher pressure than typical EFI. The later CIS w/ lambda runs up to 7.4 bar, typical EFI runs in the 2.5-3.5 bar range. Look at the chart below:



A single 044 is getting pretty close to the stall limit at 7.5 bar, and pulling about 15 amps. Even if you stay below 7.5 bar, you're still pulling higher amps, creating more heat and shortening pump life.

In a perfect world when you run two pumps in series, each would run at 1/2 of the pressure required, I.E in a 7.4 bar system, each would run at 3.7 bar which puts the pump in it's 'happy' zone and only pulls about 11 amps. Less heat, longer life.

Make sure you have good wiring and relays for any 044.

EFI is a different story.
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Old 08-09-2014, 10:16 AM
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Thanks. I have a very stupid question: how does the pump adjust to the system pressure requirement, isn't it giving its max all the time?
Thanks again and sorry for my ignorance
Old 08-09-2014, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100sport View Post
Thanks. I have a very stupid question: how does the pump adjust to the system pressure requirement, isn't it giving its max all the time?
Thanks again and sorry for my ignorance
There's a pressure relief valve in a bulkhead inside the pump behind the pump rollers at the fuel exit end. You can see it in a cross section diagram of a bosch fuel pump.
It will open and fuel will recirculate around and around inside the pump if exit flow is held back.
While it does that the fuel gets hotter and hotter as it is flowing over the hot armature of the fuel pump motor. The electric motor is cooled by the fuel flowing over it.
Then as the gas gets hot it cavitates in between the pump rollers while they spin and partially vaporizes making a nasty buzzing noise.

Its a lousy situation and one more reason why trying to get more out of primitive old high pressure mechanical lambda CIS has drawbacks.

I have twin 044 pumps in series too and they are not from ebay. They work ok but the front one makes a buzzing noise after running a while.
Old 08-09-2014, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100sport View Post
My car is currently "under the knife" and we are planing on using only one Bosch 044 (in the front) on a mildly tuned 3.3l (about 330/350 RWHP). I would like to know what should be the reasonable limit, in terms of RWHP, that a single Bosch 044 can handle. Anybody has a clue? Thanks!
Mathieu
I think a single 044 might be getting to it's limits with CIS somewhere around those figures. It'd be fine with EFI - but you might need dual 044's for CIS.

Mine made 370RWHP, but AFR's were crossing 12 around 5000 RPM. It's possible there was some tuning leeway left (I wasn't using the RPM switch, for example). I fitted a UTCIS. Bad move, in retrospect . I had planned to try adding another 044, using an AIC to trim control pressure etc. but in the end I just bought a MOTEC.

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Old 08-10-2014, 06:49 AM
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