Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
EFI air filter placement

Thanks to those of you who helped me with the "manual heat" thread.

Here's the continuation....

I reconnected the the driver's side heat hose to the H/E which eliminates the space for the air filter hose.

I would love to attach a filter directly to the turbo but am aware of the problems that rain may cause. There is a product made to cover air filters to prevent water. They don't claim "water proof" just water resistant.

http://cpwstore.carpartswholesale.com/catalog/?Ntt=land+rover+range+rover+injen+air+filter+wrap+ x1034blk

So far, my other option is to plumb the air filter into the driver's side wheel well. There is lots of space back there. A shield can be fabricated to block water and dirt. Yet, getting the 4" diameter hose up there is messy.

Any thoughts??

__________________
88' blk/blk 930: Haltech EFI, Twin Plug, Pauter Rods, Nascar Bearings, custom crank work, dowel pinned case, ported manifold and heads, Kokeln I/C, SC Cams, Turbonetics ball bearing 62-1, BB headers, RARLYL8 Zork, additional 993 oil filter, plx/inyourface gage, RS style coilover, Fikse FM10-17 wheels, TIAL 46mm 1 bar. (where the heck did all my money go?)
Old 11-11-2008, 08:21 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,062
Garage
Right to the turbo is fine or in the engine compartment.
Old 11-11-2008, 10:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCHNELE View Post
Right to the turbo is fine or in the engine compartment.
Rain won't be a problem?
Old 11-11-2008, 10:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,062
Garage
Monsoon rain might be a problem
Old 11-11-2008, 10:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,083
Garage
It seems a direct turbo mount would be terribly hot.
What about using a louvered shield and mounting behind the driver's side rear wheel?
I know it can be dirty there and a monsoon in the rain but there is also loads of cool air and a properly constructed louvered shield should protect against all of that.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-11-2008, 10:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,062
Garage
Why would it be terribly hot? lots of cool air flowing along the body pan
Old 11-11-2008, 11:01 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,083
Garage
The entire turbo/muffler area gets pretty hot and the filter assembly will heat soak. Just thinking of a way to get the inlet out into the easiest available fresh air without going into the engine compartment.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-11-2008, 11:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,062
Garage
The only time there will be any significant heat transfer is when the car is stationary.
Old 11-11-2008, 11:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,083
Garage
Yes, that is when the soak sets in. Same problem with intercoolers.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-11-2008, 01:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Cynical Misanthrope
 
AFM744's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Campbell, CA
Posts: 382
Send a message via Yahoo to AFM744
I've given this a lot of thought. I did a lot of intake testing on a previous car, and the location right behind the rear wheel is simple, but is subject to an awful lot of crap. I'm going to try to duct my air filter up over the wheelwell either as high as I can or even over the wheel and to the front flare. In my car this will necessitate moving the left side heater fan (already done) as well as moving the evap cannister and some other highly-immovable-looking items.

Right now I'm still shaking aluminum shavings out of my hair from the porting work, my intake is a ways off.
__________________
X-1, AFM744, Jon, '92 C2 Turbo
JE 8:1 pistons, 964 cams, 38mm intakes ported/polished/twinplugged, ARP hardware, B&B headers/exhaust, 355whp. Full-blown GT35R 3.2 intake EFI pending...
Where my misspent time and money is currently going.
Old 11-11-2008, 01:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Wo ist die Rennstrecke?
 
DonE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Brooks, GA
Posts: 1,211
I've actually tested this on an engine dyno when I was tuning the motor. I installed a KN filter directly to the turbo and did a full pull. I immediately installed the actual 4 inch AL tubing that would take air from inside the engine compartment (about 3 ft total length) and installed the KN filter to that. There was no difference whatsoever - time to spool, full power, torque and so on - between directly placing the air filter on the turbo vs running 3 ft of 4 inch plumbing.

Placing the air filter in the fender is a bit odd - right where water and all size dirt can directly contaminate (directly from the tire) the filter.

Here are some pics of my plumbing. The AL tubing was bought at a local muffler shop from their scrap bin. The whole thing cost around $100 with the silicone elbows representing the highest cost.


Old 11-11-2008, 04:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
Thanks guys.

KN suggested not attaching the air filter directly to the turbo due to heat. They said that eventually the rubber will melt and find its way into the turbo. They sell what's called a dry sock that protects the filter from water and dirt. Maybe it works...who knows?

I cut a 6" piece of 4"diameter hose that now sits between the turbo and the air filter. The dry sock goes on tomorrow. But, soon I'll have to do what our genius friend Don did. Awesome!

Don, is that 3" tubing? I assume the cold side of the turbo is 4" for which you used a reducer....?
__________________
88' blk/blk 930: Haltech EFI, Twin Plug, Pauter Rods, Nascar Bearings, custom crank work, dowel pinned case, ported manifold and heads, Kokeln I/C, SC Cams, Turbonetics ball bearing 62-1, BB headers, RARLYL8 Zork, additional 993 oil filter, plx/inyourface gage, RS style coilover, Fikse FM10-17 wheels, TIAL 46mm 1 bar. (where the heck did all my money go?)
Old 11-11-2008, 05:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,083
Garage
That's even better.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-11-2008, 06:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Wo ist die Rennstrecke?
 
DonE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Brooks, GA
Posts: 1,211
Good catch. The pics are an old set up I tried using 3"and didn't like. The new plumbing takes the exact route, but is 4" now and tested.
Old 11-11-2008, 06:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsiegel360 View Post
Thanks guys.

KN suggested not attaching the air filter directly to the turbo due to heat. They said that eventually the rubber will melt and find its way into the turbo. They sell what's called a dry sock that protects the filter from water and dirt. Maybe it works...who knows?

I cut a 6" piece of 4"diameter hose that now sits between the turbo and the air filter. The dry sock goes on tomorrow. But, soon I'll have to do what our genius friend Don did. Awesome!

Don, is that 3" tubing? I assume the cold side of the turbo is 4" for which you used a reducer....?
Let us know how the dry sock works out for you.
Old 11-12-2008, 07:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Cynical Misanthrope
 
AFM744's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Campbell, CA
Posts: 382
Send a message via Yahoo to AFM744
DonE I'm leaning to what you did. My only qualm is cutting that hole in the engine compartment. I drove my car for a few weeks with a vacuum gauge tapped into the inducer pipe just above the elbow. 2+psi vacuum is a substantial pressure drop, partly due to the CIS barn-door no doubt, and partly due to the inlet pipe's neck-down past the motor mount. Three to four-inch ducting to the engine compartment with modest bends is the right way to do it.
__________________
X-1, AFM744, Jon, '92 C2 Turbo
JE 8:1 pistons, 964 cams, 38mm intakes ported/polished/twinplugged, ARP hardware, B&B headers/exhaust, 355whp. Full-blown GT35R 3.2 intake EFI pending...
Where my misspent time and money is currently going.
Old 11-12-2008, 08:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mppickett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Barrington, RI
Posts: 593
I've had mine in the rear wheel well for nearly a couple of years with a shield to keep out the big splatter. It is not a great solution. Even without direct splatter, the filter gets dirty fast and is a major pain to get to to clean (got to remove the shield).

I REALLY like Don's solution and have no qualms about a tiny 4" hole in the engine compartment if it solves the problems noted above.
__________________
07 Audi A4 2.0T Cabriolet - Black/Black (sold)
96 993 C2 Cabriolet - Arena Red/Tan (sold)
82 911SC - 993 Turbo Cab Trib - Speed Yellow/Black (sold)
58 DKW Universal - Baby Crap Yellow/Beige (sold)
Old 11-12-2008, 02:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Wo ist die Rennstrecke?
 
DonE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Brooks, GA
Posts: 1,211
I wish I would have taken pics of the test so you could see what this length of AL pipe looked like being tested. The time between runs on the dyno was small - a couple of minutes. The pics above show 3" pipes, but I did some math for the turbo I use (GT-35r) and found that a 4" pipe worked better at WOT in terms of cu ft/min. The dyno confirmed it. I clean the KN filter every time I change the oil - about every 5000 miles.
Old 11-12-2008, 03:53 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,083
Garage
Bet you had fun re-drilling that hole in the engine bay from 3" to 4" !!
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-12-2008, 05:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Doug Siegel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 314
Don,

How did you drill that hole?

Also, what's the best way to clean the air filter?

__________________
88' blk/blk 930: Haltech EFI, Twin Plug, Pauter Rods, Nascar Bearings, custom crank work, dowel pinned case, ported manifold and heads, Kokeln I/C, SC Cams, Turbonetics ball bearing 62-1, BB headers, RARLYL8 Zork, additional 993 oil filter, plx/inyourface gage, RS style coilover, Fikse FM10-17 wheels, TIAL 46mm 1 bar. (where the heck did all my money go?)
Old 11-12-2008, 06:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:56 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.