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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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I'm going to dyno test both the 993 system and the SSI system.

Baseline will be my engine with stock J-pipe H/E, which is used for all my exhaust system testing. Current configuration puts out 315WHP @ 0.7bar. Will be looking closely at boost threshold and torque over the entire RPM range.
Very interested to see the difference beween equal length long primaries (SSI) vs unequal length larger ID with much shorter primaries (993).




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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 12-13-2008, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WERK-I View Post
Trying to remember my days of studying thermodynamics...... When there's a loss of gas velocity, heat energy goes up or down? I think it's a direct relationship, so energy should go down.
I took metallurgical thermo instead of mechanical thermo so I only know what the smart guys tell me about fast moving gasses....
There must be some kind of relationship between heat energy and mechanical work....time for a wikipedia search!
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Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 12-13-2008, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 964 T #304 View Post
How much should you have to pay for a set of 993 HE, used?
$250 for beat up ones up to $450 for nice ones. Then the flanges have to be flipped on the passenger side.
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Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 12-13-2008, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukesportsman View Post
Ben, are we going seat of pants, subjective or objective with dyno runs? I'm not here to question/critique just purely wondering?

Sadly, I've been finishing other projects (MG, GS and new shop) along with waiting 6 months on my replacement Carillo rod for the 3.3 TT build-up so I have no feedback regarding my 993 HE's.

Brian will be dyno ing the set up but I will be using it. remember that the huge gains for me will be the volute system. I will not get wave cancelation and this should be good for a 3-500 rpm quicker spool up out of the rather large turbo I have. We will see but it will definatly be more compact and less exensive setup then most of the competiton (less OBX)
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Old 12-14-2008, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infraredcalvin View Post
I've discussed this setup shortly with my mechanic as well, he likes the 993 setup better because of durability, short runs, and primarys, but has not put it to the test on a dyno, I think he wanted me to be his first victim...

He did mention that most smog inspectors will probably wont even question the system due to the porsche part number stamped on the 993 he. Something for us smog guys to think about.

I'd be really interested if this can be developed for a single stock wastegate.

It could but it there would not be as much benifit from the design
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Old 12-14-2008, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb911 View Post
It could but it there would not be as much benifit from the design
For this application on my car, performance gains are secondary, I have cracks in my j-pipes and i'm getting that oh so wonderful smell of exhaust in the cabin.

I need a solution and this one is clean, cost effective, and I should still see some performance gains vs the stock setup.
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:27 AM
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well yes it could be done but will be a secondary plan. the first plan is a volute system
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Ben

914-6 2.4s GT tribute.
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb911 View Post
It could but it there would not be as much benifit from the design

could you explain why 2 wastegate should a preferable of one?

do any one have pics from flanges that have be flipped on the passenger side

did you just cut the pipe and reweld under the flange

i going for this headers on my 965 this winter
Old 12-14-2008, 02:38 PM
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with dual wastegates you creat 2 seperate banks of exhaust pulses so no cancelation thus quicker spools and faster bleed off of pressure
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Ben

914-6 2.4s GT tribute.
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Old 12-14-2008, 03:45 PM
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Infraredcalvin
He did mention that most smog inspectors will probably wont even question the system due to the porsche part number stamped on the 993 he. Something for us smog guys to think about.

I run SSI's on my turbo and they pass smog.
Old 12-14-2008, 04:38 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Flipped flanges as performed by M&K




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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 12-14-2008, 05:43 PM
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+1 on M&K in regards to flipping flanges.
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Luke S.
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:44 PM
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the later part of this week I will probably start the project I have to finish up Brians project first then move on to the 993HE setup

I have thought out a bunch of it already so this project should work well with the exception of the flange and keeping the banks seperated all the way to the flange. it would actually be easier to not do that

Paul (911nut) which way were you thinking of going?
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Ben

914-6 2.4s GT tribute.
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Old 12-15-2008, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb911 View Post

Paul (911nut) which way were you thinking of going?
Single W/G
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Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 12-15-2008, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Flipped flanges as performed by M&K





what is M&K? did you weld inside like original or under the flanges?
Old 12-15-2008, 03:23 PM
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I own M&K we are a fabrictor/exhaust manufacturer specific to porsche anyhow this is my pictures of the prototype. I thought about moving the long crossover closer to the engine mount but the problem is that if there are differences between engine mounts it could be an issue currently it is 3/4" off the bottom of the mount. The merge is nice now for the flange and to produce 3 units. Anyone else interested now is the time to jump on board before we produce them(production) as the price will go up!




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Ben

914-6 2.4s GT tribute.
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Old 12-31-2008, 12:12 PM
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I weighed my stock H/E's, crossover and J-pipe: 60 Lb!
The 993 H/E's are 10 Lb each.
This set-up may save 30 Lb.
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Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 12-31-2008, 02:49 PM
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cost

What type of cost are we talking about for the M&K option referred to above that will work with the newer style heat exchangers??

Bryan
Old 12-31-2008, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x98boardwell View Post
What type of cost are we talking about for the M&K option referred to above that will work with the newer style heat exchangers??

Bryan
not sure yet but with all the labor I see them selling for 6-700 withouy heat exchangers less for the proto types

so if you find a deal on HE you could have a nice setup for 1100-1500 depending on what you find for HEat exchangers
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Ben

914-6 2.4s GT tribute.
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:08 AM
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oh yeah and for those that don't know these are all hand TIG welded 321 stainless steel pieces so as good as it gets without Ti being used
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Ben

914-6 2.4s GT tribute.
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:16 AM
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