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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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This is similar to what I have seen with headers in general. Nomatter what the design, if they have less volume than the stock J-pipe (not hard to do) then boost lag will be reduced.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-28-2009, 10:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #161 (permalink)
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That would have to be full boost by 2500rpm. Most C2T's w K27-7200's and sport mufflers are at full boost around 3k. Fully stock about 3200 I think.

If you are getting full (.8bar) boost by 2500 w/o other changes or a HF, this would be big. If I remember right, boost onset (where you start to feel the turbo) is usally about 1700 w a HF and about 2k w a 7200 depending on set up but I may be wrong as I am rusty on this.

I hope we can document this on a dyno, hopefully with boost monitoring against the HP/TQ curves.

Fun!
Old 04-28-2009, 10:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #162 (permalink)
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When I say boost onset, I mean just that; when does the turbo begin to deliver boost. So at 2500 rpm I'm developing 3 psi of boost. I'm running the K27-7200 turbo that came with the car and the Rarlyl8 muffler I installed last fall.
With the stock heat exchangers, j-pipe and Rarlyl8 muffler boost onset was 3000 rpm; with a full stock set-up it was 3400 rpm.
I know it doesn't sound like a big deal but that 3 psi is adding some power that can be felt. Previously there would be nothing much happening at that rpm; just the feel of 3.3 L at 7:1 cr and we all know what a thrill that is
As for the cat and stock muffler, they weigh 25 lb. each. My Rarlyl8 muffler and tailpiece weigh 10 lb. so there was a net savings of 40 lb. before I added the headers.
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Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 04-28-2009, 01:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #163 (permalink)
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Apologies. I must have forgotten more than I thought. On my 91C2T w the K27-7200 and sport muffler I thought I had full boost at about 3100rpm. With a K29 that had a larger 7006 hot side it was 3600rpm. Later I had my K29 converted to one of the first HF but still w the large hot side and I though I saw boost onset at 1700rpm and full boost by 3600rpm.

I must be off base.

Bottom line is you have seen a solid improvement.

I like the 993HE's w Bens mod. Large tube to support big HP and yet not having the big WG tube smaller total volume.

Thx and congratulations on your success.

Old 04-28-2009, 03:30 PM
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There's no doubt in my mind this is the best heated system available. 993 HEs are well documented giving huge improvements on NA 3.2s which use exactly the same HEs as 930s. As soon as the Australian dollar recovers I will be going for this option. I bet Ben will eventually come up with a twin K16 rear mount system and muffler set up for it too as the system lends itself to being modular. I would like to see what the heat set up is for 993 HEs, man I miss heat!!!
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Old 04-28-2009, 05:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #165 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence88mph View Post
There's no doubt in my mind this is the best heated system available. 993 HEs are well documented giving huge improvements on NA 3.2s which use exactly the same HEs as 930s. As soon as the Australian dollar recovers I will be going for this option. I bet Ben will eventually come up with a twin K16 rear mount system and muffler set up for it too as the system lends itself to being modular. I would like to see what the heat set up is for 993 HEs, man I miss heat!!!

I have one on the 911 forum already(heat kit)
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #166 (permalink)
 
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Here's a view of the installation on my car:


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Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb

Last edited by 911nut; 05-03-2009 at 04:17 PM..
Old 05-03-2009, 04:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #167 (permalink)
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Very nice.

I am sure there is a reason but I am wondering why there is that bump or elbow in the cross over tube coming out of the passenger side heat exchanger. Is there something there that has to be cleared or left accessible?

Old 05-03-2009, 05:02 PM
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[QUOTE=911st;4642515]Very nice.

I am sure there is a reason but I am wondering why there is that bump or elbow in the cross over tube coming out of the passenger side heat exchanger. Is there something there that has to be cleared or left accessible?

[/QUOTE

Different planes also it will clear for different style mufflers
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:22 AM
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Hey Ben, nice work!
Spence that was my setup I bought from Ben a couple of years ago, still not in the car......
I'm thinking about cams right now and will probably install everyhting next summer after snow season.
cheers,
Phil
p.s I miss heat as well, I deleted blower fan & backdated tinware so no HEAT!
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cheers,
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:32 AM
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Hey Phil,

I couldn't remember your name! I knew you had bought some 993HEs off Ben at some stage or had him flip the flanges. If you decide not to install them let me know as I want to get this setup happening. You backdated the tin wear? Getting rid of the blower hole in the rear tin?
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:17 PM
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Nice set-up.

Has anyone any dyno of how the 993 heat exchanger perform?
Did the placement of the 2 WG's work out?
Old 08-20-2009, 02:04 PM
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Still hoping for some Dyno data.
"In God We Trust, all others bring data."
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Jeremy C.
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:03 AM
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Did we ever get any dyno data on the new 993 setup?
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1988 930 coupe - Silver Metallic
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Old 03-10-2010, 04:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #174 (permalink)
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Interested also in any data!!
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Old 03-11-2010, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stup View Post
Interested also in any data!!
nope never made it.It was a good bit better then the previous long tube ssi setup I had but I have no plans of changing this setup works so well
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:56 AM
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Don't know how relevant this is, but we have tested numerous setups on twin turbo 964 based motors. Tests were done with SSI's, 993HE, 2 custom header setups, K24's, 8:1 comp. 964 cams, 3.6L and MOTEC. What we found was that the SSI's made a torque earlier but fell of and lacked in top end HP. (GREAT for a street motor). The custom headers were a mix between 993 and SSI, one showing a 12HP gain up top, but being down in low/mid revs. (Good Race Only Header). We found 993 TT (stock) HE to be the best, giving us max./early torque down low and HP relativly high. This motor dynoed @565rwhp/550TQ @ 0.8 bar. TQ being pretty instant, basically 550TQ @2800RPM flat to about 5700 RPM. My opinion for a single turbo setup would be towards the SSI style setup for a street car.
Bernie
Old 03-12-2010, 12:06 AM
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