Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by cole930 View Post
It took about 30 min. to run a #6 well insulated ground wire from the Battery negative terminal to the mounting plate under the pass seat and then to engine compartment.
Cole,

Did you tie the end of the #6 to the engine or simply pick up the sensor commons there?

Thanks

Old 04-05-2010, 02:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Auburn,In. U.S.A.
Posts: 2,449
Jim,

I tied the new #6 to separate grounding terminal blocks under the pass seat and in the engine compartment. I took any LM-1 related sensor and component ground wires that are on the engine and ran them back to the new grounding terminal block. I did add a new second braided ground strap from the body to the engine but it is not hooked to the new #6 ground.

Cole
__________________
Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 04-05-2010 at 03:10 PM..
Old 04-05-2010, 03:07 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 278
Cole,

Thanks. You did it correctly. Tying the #6 to the engine case could result in a ground loop which can create incredibly strange and difficult problems to diagnose.

Jim
Old 04-05-2010, 05:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
BoxsterGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 4,809
Porsche Crest



Subscribed.

Planning on this in near future.

Len

Old 04-10-2010, 04:43 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Auburn,In. U.S.A.
Posts: 2,449
Len,

Welcome aboard, I don't know how much help we are going to be hear as we all seem pretty equally confused about some aspects of how we do this. It's like Brian said about not knowing you needed to be an EE to do this.

If I were suggesting how to get started I would advise making a list of the parameters you are planning to monitor, explore the device or sensor options
available to you and pay particular attention to the type of output each device offers.
Once you are familiar with the output options compare those to the available Innovate hardware that is most compatible and will require the least signal conditioning or ancillary components to interface.


Cole
__________________
Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 04-10-2010, 08:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Next to Mulholland [west]
Posts: 2,461
Garage
Very interesting thread guys. It looks like you done a great job solving the problems of getting the Innovate installed and working with RPM and MAP/BOOST.

I went through the same research on what AFR instrument to get for my 1973 911 MFI 2.7 motor. Truthfully I was a bit confused about how this all worked by studying the Innovate site for a few days. I also read a few threads here on Pelican and posted a couple of queries.

I was looking for accuracy, wideband, data logging and the ability to chart and study the data numbers in a spreadsheet or other program.

I had trouble figuring out what I would need from Innovate, but it looked like a RPM or tach adapter plus data logging and a way to get the data out.

I went another route in the end. I had been aware of the Daytona Sensors Wego IV unit that has a tach input, AFR wideband Bosch LM 4.2 sensor, 2 hours of data logging, an additional input for MAP or TPS or something else. An old friend of mine is a principal in the company and I ran into him at a trade show in February and looked at the Wego IV again. I downloaded the installation instructions and software from their website, and decided to try a unit.

I am very happy with the Wego IV. Very easy installation. Hook the tach to the purple wire on the back of the Porsche tach, and you are mapping AFR and RPM. I also added a MAP sensor. I have been able to really get on top of the tuning on my MFI for the first time in 10 years.

I was impressed with the ease of installation, accuracy, data download and charting. The price is around $440.00 retail. I think a good deal for something that does this job so well.

I was so impressed that I talked to Scott and Wayne at Pelican and they are now carrying the Daytona Sensors Wego IV. There is also a dual unit that can be drive by 2 sensors one for each bank.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am so impressed with this unit that I know have a business interest in it......but this does not make it any less of a great choice. Judge for yourself, it is a good unit and great value for the money with terrific ease of use.

I plan to do a thread on installing and using the unit. I feel AFR is a must for MFI and carbs on the 911s and this is a good way to do it. And a great choice for any Pelicans who are on a quest for a good AFR instrument.

Here is a photo:



__________________
RGruppe #79 '73 Carrera RS spec 2.7 MFI
00 Saab 95 Aero wagon stick
01 Saab 95 Aero wagon auto
03 Boxster
90 Chevy PU Prerunner....1990
Old 04-23-2010, 10:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
 
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,043
Garage
That maybe a nice system but doesn't help with LM-x information. I've spent that money and need to make it work.

Grounding and interface seem to be the key to a smooth signal. I haven't had time to get back to mine but I have bought all new wire and plan to rip all the old stuff out and start over with something like what Cole did. I need to emulate a known success.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-24-2010, 07:48 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 709
I've used the Innovate and Zeitronix equipment, and really like the Zeitronix stuff.

You can even use the Zeitronix to trigger an RPM/Boost solenoid without the need for a separate box like an MSD.

No affiliation, BTW.

Zeitronix Home Page
__________________
1986 911 Turbo
3.3L, K27HFS, Tial 46mm, TurboKraft Intercooler, 964 Cams, Monty Muffler, MS3Pro Evo, M&W Ignition, Zietronix WBO2 Data Logger, Wevo shifter, coupler and motor mounts.
Old 04-24-2010, 08:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Auburn,In. U.S.A.
Posts: 2,449
Brian,

Good Plan !!! Go to the Innovate web site and get on the Forums, works just like this one, sign up and go searching. I have a ton of application stuff I downloaded and it was really helpful. Start by doing a search on grounding.

If you go with a separate mounting chassis and ground source, like I did, make sure you use all insulated terminal strips so you don't create a big ground loop. If you mount a metal chassis to the floor and then do your wiring on top of it
that makes all your component wiring grounds automatically tied through the chassis ground because your mounting plate is screwed to the floor, hence use insulated terminal blocks.

When you run your new ground wire from the neg. terminal of the batt. to the mounting plate make sure your ground terminal block is insulated from the plate and then from there to the engine compartment. In the engine compartment mount a separate insulated grounding terminal block to hook your new ground
wire to. Then all your sensor grounds back there should ground to that insulated grounding terminal block.

Any sensors mounted to the engine are critical. They should have their own ground wire on them and that goes to your new insulated grounding terminal block. If you mount a sensor to the engine make sure you check continuity between the sensors own ground wire and the engine block if you have continuity between them then you need to insulate the sensor from the engine block and then run the sensors ground wire back to the new insulated grounding terminal block. Remember the engine block is grounded to the chassis through the heavy grounding strap on the transmisson mount. If a sensor is grounded to the engine and then you run the sensors ground wire back to the insulated grounding terminal block you have just contaminated the integrity of your new seperate grounding system.

When you use the LM-1 do not use a cigarette lighter plug in. Cut the cigarette lighter plug off and hard wire it into the mounting plate power source and ground wire. Then when you need to run the LM-1 it is powered and grounded to the same source and ground as the sensors and inputs of the LM-1.

If any of your sensors require a seperate 5 VDC power supply to condition the input for the LM-1, MAP are usually 5 VDC, let me know. I
have a schematic and parts list for Radio Shack and you can make
your own easily for about $6.00. There are caps. on the input and output so you get a nice clean signal.

Hope this helps !!!!!! Us old farts have too stick together !!!!!


Cole
__________________
Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 06-11-2010 at 07:27 PM..
Old 04-24-2010, 09:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Next to Mulholland [west]
Posts: 2,461
Garage
Rarly,

did not mean to pull the thread off track....sorry.

i just wanted to share my experience. It may help someone who is still shopping
__________________
RGruppe #79 '73 Carrera RS spec 2.7 MFI
00 Saab 95 Aero wagon stick
01 Saab 95 Aero wagon auto
03 Boxster
90 Chevy PU Prerunner....1990
Old 04-24-2010, 04:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #30 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,043
Garage
Like I've never done that ...

This wasn't supposed to be a graduate thesis, I can't believe how involved it is and the complete lack of decent instructions. Had I known that going in I would NEVER have bought this piece of ****. I don't EVEN have time for all that. It needs to bolt up and go.
If your dohicky does a better job and has INSTRUCTIONS then folks are definitely better off buying it.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-24-2010, 05:43 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #31 (permalink)
Turbofrog
 
smurfbus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,481
One thing to remember, Innovate has sensor aging control (heater calibration) that other units might not have. So even if PITA, I'd like to get accurate readings with an old WBO2 sensor.

I too would hope to see an easy installing unit with good aging controls. I hate to move the innovate stuff between my vehicles. On my audi and aprilia I got it to work but sounds like the 930 grounding is not that easy and I'm ESL so can't really understand every specific instruction either.

I never got an answer from Innovate forums? My EGT has never worked but luckily the other sensors work on that same slot on my LMA3.
Old 04-24-2010, 11:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #32 (permalink)
beancounter
 
jwasbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Weehawken, NJ
Posts: 3,597
I have had the innovate LC-1 for wideband afr for a couple years. I recently installed the DL-32 for rpm, map, cylinder head temp and data logging as a "while I am in there" item during my engine rebuild.



I have had no issues getting the system to work. The LC-1 is mounted in the engine compartment and grounded at the factory ground point behind all the stuff on the drivers side. I used one of the analog outs to drive a permanent afr gauge (which is grounded at a factory ground point under the dash).



I drilled a hole in the seat rail and put a nut and bolt through it which is the ground point for the DL-32 and the electromotive ignition brain. I took the tach signal from the electromotive unit and split it...one side feeds the rpm input on the DL-32 and the other goes back into the engine compartment and plugs into the factory wire harness tachometer wire. I used the thermocouple wire supplied in the DL-32 kit and added a ring terminal to the end so I could use it on a spark plug...measuring CLT on #6 cylinder.

All my signals are clean and the set up seems to work flawlessly, no double E degree required.

As a final step, in true automotive geek fashion, I bought a touch screen slate PC which I can use to run logworks for realtime monitoring.

__________________
Jacob
Current: 1983 911 GT4 Race Car / 1999 Spec Miata / 2000 MB SL500 / 1998 MB E300TD / 1998 BMW R1100RT / 2016 KTM Duke 690
Past: 2009 997 Turbo Cab / 1979 930
Old 04-25-2010, 06:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #33 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,043
Garage
I need to back up and regroup. Nothing I have looks like what you are using.
What I want to do is have the ability to plug all the leads into the LM-1 device and record. The only parameter I would like to permanently monitor is AFR. So I need to hook all the probes up and leave a bundle under my seat. That bundle can then be quickly plugged into the LM-1 device and my laptop when it is time to do some testing.
What is the best way to go about that?
Do I do something like what Cole did and just leave it all unplugged?
The LM-1 device does not seem to work for all parameters unless it is first measuring AFR with the O2 sensor. I would like to monitor AFR permanently but don't want that big hunky thing left in the car. Do I need to buy that flat Innovate box that you have mounted Jacob? Does it replace the portable LM-1 device?
I've gotten zero feedback from the Innovate website. Frustrating ...
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-25-2010, 07:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #34 (permalink)
beancounter
 
jwasbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Weehawken, NJ
Posts: 3,597
If you want permanent afr and don't want the LM-1 sitting in the car all the time, that's what the LC-1 does. It has the same wideband O2 controller as your LM-1, but the LC-1 is useless without a gauge or a laptop, or datalogger. If you want to record logs, you must use a laptop or buy the DL-32. Pics and some details of my LC-1 install in this thread:

LC-1 installed

Mounted under my seat is the electromotive XDI-2 box and the Innovate DL-32.

With your LM-1, you should be able to read/record afr and it has a built in rpm sensor (similar to what my DL-32 has). You can use either an inductive clamp or a tach signal to drive the rpm input channel. The input channel has to be configured correctly for your application. On the DL-32 you can do this via a couple of buttons mounted on the unit (somewhat cryptic in my opinion), or by connecting a laptop and using the LMprogrammer software (more user friendly in my opinion). I believe the LM-1 also has analog outputs you can use to drive a permanent afr gauge.
__________________
Jacob
Current: 1983 911 GT4 Race Car / 1999 Spec Miata / 2000 MB SL500 / 1998 MB E300TD / 1998 BMW R1100RT / 2016 KTM Duke 690
Past: 2009 997 Turbo Cab / 1979 930
Old 04-25-2010, 07:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #35 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Next to Mulholland [west]
Posts: 2,461
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Like I've never done that ...

This wasn't supposed to be a graduate thesis, I can't believe how involved it is and the complete lack of decent instructions. Had I known that going in I would NEVER have bought this piece of ****. I don't EVEN have time for all that. It needs to bolt up and go.
If your dohicky does a better job and has INSTRUCTIONS then folks are definitely better off buying it.

Thanks Rarly. Makes me feel better. I wish I had some words of wisdom on the Innovate. I am sure you will get it solved!

Our "dohicky" has great instructions and it is straight forward. For AFR and RPM you supply +12vdc ground, and hook up to the purple wire in the tach. It records any time it is on and stores 2 hours of data. You can add boost/MAP, or temp, or TPI.

Enough promotion.

Good luck with solving the problems you are having.
__________________
RGruppe #79 '73 Carrera RS spec 2.7 MFI
00 Saab 95 Aero wagon stick
01 Saab 95 Aero wagon auto
03 Boxster
90 Chevy PU Prerunner....1990
Old 04-25-2010, 08:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #36 (permalink)
Turbofrog
 
smurfbus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,481
Jacob: IIRC LM-1 does not have RPM unless you use external RPM unit. I bought auxbox so I can log rpm,boost and couple of other things.

Brian: With only LM-1 IMO you can only log wideband AFR/time. It can be helpfull if you only log short runs so you know what rpm you went though or idle.

LMA3 (auxbox) is the little brother of the DL32. With DL32 you can also log, but with LMA-3 you need PC or LM-1 to log. Anyway you can chain different innovate units like I have chained my LM-1, LC-1 and LMA-3.

Very puzzling system. It should be one box that does everything.
Old 04-25-2010, 10:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #37 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Next to Mulholland [west]
Posts: 2,461
Garage
I don't have one, but reading their site was very confusing. Could not figure out what I would need.
__________________
RGruppe #79 '73 Carrera RS spec 2.7 MFI
00 Saab 95 Aero wagon stick
01 Saab 95 Aero wagon auto
03 Boxster
90 Chevy PU Prerunner....1990
Old 04-25-2010, 11:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #38 (permalink)
 
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,043
Garage
I've got the RPM add-on and have wired it to my coil. Also wired up boost and fuel pressure. My laptop is configured and all these things work but none works correctly and all have so much noise that the data is useless. The AFR are somewhat useful but I don't trust them either.
This is where I was when I joined this thread some time ago and no progress has been made. I purchased new wiring to re-do it all but really have no time for that. (I get on this forum during meal times and if I need a break or I wouldn't have time for this either. I'm eating a hoagy and slurping down a Dew as I type).
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-25-2010, 11:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #39 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Auburn,In. U.S.A.
Posts: 2,449
Guys,

The only reason I replied to this post in the first place was to try and help. I have no dog in this hunt and I'm not trying to sell anyone anything so I don't give a s..... if anyone chooses to do this the way I did it or not.

When I was initially considering the LM-1 I read all the information I could find from users that were using one and I checked out the forum to get feedback from other users. The one thing that stood out was noise issues on input signals caused by poor grounding. Poor grounding is caused by several things but the most prevalent causes are (1) loose or dirty ground connections, spade connector connections poorly crimped, loose, or broken. (2) Dirty, corroded, or loose factory grounding point. (3) Ground loops and signal interference caused by relays, solenoids, switches, efi, cause by the normal auto common chassis grounding systems. Most of these issues can be easily eliminated by cleaning and brushing all the chassis grounding points and soldering all wire connectors rather than crimping them. Some have had success just using the normal chassis ground but many issues, noted in the Innovate forums, trace directly back to grounding. Being aware of the grounding issues I tried to be proactive by creating a separate, isolated, ground plane just for the LM-1 and associated components. Running a seperate ground from the Batt. Negative terminal to under the passenger seat took 20 Min. The chassis mounting was required anyway. If you don't want to have to isolate the mounting plate from the chassis ground just use a piece of lexan instead of a metal mounting plate. Mounting things in this manner make it very easy to trace the individual component circuits if you have issues and need to diagnose.

I picked the LM-1 because I wanted to monitor AFR, RPM, Boost, System Pressure, Control Pressure and Display AFR. I wanted to be able to download information, Chart, Display, and Compare on a laptop. I wanted the unit to be portable, compact, and switchable. My LM-1 disconnects and comes out of the car in 10 seconds. It is fastened to the floor next to the gas pedal with a large velcro pad and you simply pull 4 plugs. I then take it in the house and hook it to my laptop, it's much better than working in the car. I figured once I have everything set up and tuned I can simply reinstall
the wideband, plug in the Lm-1, log a few runs, and take it back out But after
having it installed it turnes out to be so unintrusive I just turn the LM-1 switch off and pull the wideband when it's not in use leaving the LM-1 in place.






The LM-1 is powered by a seperate toggle switch on the dash with the AFR display mounted next to the switch and is easily seen from the drivers seat while driving.




The wiring chassis is mounted under the passenger seat and all the power inputs to the chassis are fued seperatly with a fuse block on the chassis.The fuse block is easily accesed by moving the seat forward.

The LM-1 is a pain in the ass to implement but there is nothing I have seen that has it's flexability, interface capability, expandability, portability,and datalogging. Lm-1 is a little long in the tooth in compaison too the newer stuff out there but for the price. WORKS FOR ME !!!!

Cole

__________________
Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 04-25-2010 at 08:00 PM..
Old 04-25-2010, 03:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #40 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:53 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.