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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Cole,
Thanks for all your info, that is what I am wanting to do.
How is your AFR gage integrated into all this? What parts did you buy to add this function? How do these extra components wire into the unit?
You cannot leave the O2 bung in place without power or it will burn up. How do you get past that? Do you leave the LM-1 in the car full time on with no 9V battery?
I have a console so cannot use your placement. Where else can I put that big thing, under the seat?
You have to push "Record" to record data. How do you do that with the unit by your feet?
I agree this thing should be able to do what I need it to once I understand what parts I need to buy and how to wire them in.

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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-25-2010, 07:54 PM
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Brian,

The Inovate equipment I have is the LM-1 and the LM2-A which is the RPM converter. I thought that was the same setup you have.

I run a piggybacked wire off the purple/black wire on the back of the tach directly to the rpm input on the LM2-A. I considered telling you to do that because picking it up off the coil is probably where most of your noise is comming from. You can also find that purple/black tach wire on the CD ignition connector and in a connector on the left side of the engine compartment under or near the fuel filter.

The AFR display is a Dyna Tune. You can get one off the Dyna Tune web site. Dyna Tune made it specifacly to interface with the LM-1. It comes with the cable and connector and plugs directly into the analog out port on the LM-1. You don't want to plug it in the LM-1 until you have the LM-1 up and running correctly and reading afr's at that point just follew the instructions that come with the display.

I have the MAP sensor, the control pressure transducer, and the system pressure transducer wired into Aux. inputs 2,3,and 4 of the LM-2A. Input 1 is used for RPM only. That still leaves Aux input 5 as a spare on the LM2-A. I think I sent you the transducer info. The transducers are direct hook ups to the LM2-A because they are 5VDC outputs. The MAP sensor, for boost, needs a 5VDC power supply to power the MAP sensor then the output from the MAP sensor is 5VDC and will also hook directly to the LM2-A . When I get the DWUR on and tuned I may be disconnecting the control pressure sensor from the L2-A and just plumb a regular gauge into the control pressure line.

As far as the LM-1 is concerned I will probably just leave it in the car so I have the AFR display all the time. I have hooked the LM-1 to 12 VDC and added a switch on the dash to turn it on and off and I just disconnected the 9 volt batt. When I want to log it's easy to just push the record button as it is a large button and easy to reach. When I want to down load to the computer I will just pull the LM-1, connect the 9 VDC, and hook it to the laptop. I have a Bosch wideband and they are rated at 1000 hours so I'll try to just run it all the time so I can display afr. If it burns up too fast I'll have to go to a plan B.

Try puttnig the LM-1 in the cubby hole of the console, sideways on the floor at the front of your seat, or velcroed on the rear edge and proped against the coin tray on the console.

I have all the part numbers for the MAP and MAP connector, and a 5VDC power supply. If you need them.

A heads up on a couple things, suggestions. On your sensors and MAP
wiring. Go to Home Depot and buy some 3- 4 wire shielded thermostat wire. There will be 3- 4 colored wires in it and it is shielded. Use that for wiring your sensors back to the LM-1. Its easy to pull through the tunnel and the shielding helps ground issues. Run a ground wire from the Bat Neg. to the cabin. Cut the plug off the LM-1 cigarette power plug and find a good constant power source you can add a switch to and then tie the other end of the switch to the red lead from the cut off power wire. Hook the new ground wire to the black lead of the power plug and then to the ground terminal on the LM2-A. All you sensors should be 3 wire 1 grnd.,1 power, and 1 input/signal/output ( different manufactures call them different things). Hook the sensor ground wires to the same ground lug on the
LM2-A as your new ground wire from the power plug. The shields go there too. Hook the sensor power wires to the same red power wire on the LM-1 switch you added. Then the sensor input/signal/output wires hook to the LM2-A aux input screws. If you do this you should have no issues. When you wire your sensors in the engine compartment to the thermostat wire if the sensors have a foil shield around them twist those to the foil shield on the thermostst wire. If the sensors don't have foil shield just cut the thermostat wire shield off at the caseing. Also be sure to try pulling your LM2-A tach signal input off the purple/ balck wire on the back of the tach.

On the next page I have attached a picture of my MAP and sensor connections in my engine compartment. To the left of the 2nd. MAP sensor you will see a 6 lug terminal block. That is my engine sensors terminal block. The top wires are from the thermostat wire in the tunnel to the LM2-A and the botton 6 wires are off the sensors pigtails. Wiring it this way allows you to replace a sensor on the engine if needed without having to cut wires. Use soldered spade connectots to insure good connections.

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 04-26-2010 at 12:10 PM..
Old 04-25-2010, 09:43 PM
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MAP and Sensor Install:

The far right MAP is the MSD 6AL-2 MAP used for the boost retard curve.

The left MAP goes to the LM2-A for logging boost in the LM-1

The blank botton terminals left of the MAP connection on the terminal
block are where the system pressure transducer will tie to the LM2-A
to log System Press. in the LM-1




Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 04-26-2010 at 10:44 AM..
Old 04-26-2010, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
One thing to remember, Innovate has sensor aging control (heater calibration) that other units might not have. So even if PITA, I'd like to get accurate readings with an old WBO2 sensor.

I too would hope to see an easy installing unit with good aging controls. I hate to move the innovate stuff between my vehicles. On my audi and aprilia I got it to work but sounds like the 930 grounding is not that easy and I'm ESL so can't really understand every specific instruction either.

I never got an answer from Innovate forums? My EGT has never worked but luckily the other sensors work on that same slot on my LMA3.
Most of the good units have calibration. You just do a free air calibration once in a while. Takes a couple of seconds, and you know it is accurate.
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:10 AM
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Mounting Chassis Wiring:





Left side of mounting plate 3 wire looms:

Bottom loom: Wiring from engine compartment

Center loom: Dash switches and AFR display wiring

Top loom: Power switch, Lm2-A, Display plugs for LM-1

Bottom of mounting plate:

Left side 6 terminal fuse block

Right side 4 terminal Grounding block

Center of mounting plate:

(2) 4 position terminal blocks for wire in/out wiring routing

Top of mounting plate:

Left side LM2-A

Center Spare terminal block for future use

Right side 5 VDC power supply for MAP sensor


Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 04-26-2010, 09:11 AM
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Thats a very nice clean serviceable installation and wiring job Cole.

I can see you take time and pride in your work and get alot of satisfaction in doing it.

Jim
Old 04-26-2010, 09:32 AM
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Hey Cole,
You have been really helpful here! Can you send me a parts list and diagram for the 5VDC unit you built? I'll adding a GM MAP for my wideband setup that I will be installing soon. Thanks.

Brian,
I hope you will figure out the problems. Well, with Dave's help here you should (no excuse)! Seriously, I know what you mean about lack of time for troubleshooting and fixing.
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:33 AM
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JIM,

Thanks but not my best work. I still need to housekeep on it and do a little tywrapping but it works. Was concerned with access without pulling the seat and so space limitations made it like putting 3 quarts of s... in a 1/2 gallon jug. Biggest plus is it's easy to get too with the seat forward and really makes any trouble shooting very easy.

Mikie,

Good to hear from you. Hope the BEAST is well. I've attached the 5 VDC schematic and parts list. Parts are direct radio shack in store stock. Total cost $6 - $8 bucks. I always make two so I have a spare, they are easy to blow up if you have a dumb ass attack and short or reverse the leads. THE WORDS OF EXPERIENCE.

Get the MAP off Ebay ( use a 3 bar ) connector available from MSD. PN# MSD 8172
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 04-26-2010 at 10:46 AM..
Old 04-26-2010, 10:13 AM
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5VDC Power Supply











Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 04-26-2010, 10:41 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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David, this info is golden! I think you covered every problem I ran up against. Thanks so much for taking the time to post all of this. Lots of thought and work went into that setup you have.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-26-2010, 11:09 AM
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Brian,

Always more than happy to help. Like I said, us old farts have to stick together.
If you have trouble let me know and we'll tag team em.

Ment to tell you if you try to hook all those component grounds to that one grounding screw on the LM2-A it gets real crowded real fast, just bundel all your sensor grounds and shields together, or on a terminal strip, and then run one wire from the bundel to the grounding screw on the LM2-A. (See next page)

Don't ever hesitate to call me 260-570-6914 just don't ask me anything about fabricating exhaust systems,
however I do know of and old fart in Alabama thats real good.

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 04-26-2010 at 12:51 PM..
Old 04-26-2010, 12:02 PM
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Brian,

Easy way to group grounds to the LM2-A ground lug is to buy a Radio Shack terminal strip, remove all the screws on one side and solder a wire across all the terminals to tie them together. Then run a wire from the LM2-A ground lug to the first screw on the other side of the terminal block and tie all the rest of your grounds and shields on the other terminal screws.




Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 04-26-2010 at 05:45 PM..
Old 04-26-2010, 12:50 PM
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Hehe.. Great work, guys.

I can see where I went wrong - my name isn't "David"! (The electronics guy I was thinking of using is also called Dave - so that's x3 in total!)
Old 04-26-2010, 03:16 PM
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Guys,

Appreciate all the kind words but you need to understand, I ain't no mental giant here. I'm just some dumb old fart that has made enough mistakes I get a few things right now and then completely by default. I stumble through all this stuff, I've just been stumbling longer than most. I always remember the wisdom of my father. "Even a blind Hog will find an acorn now and then."

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 04-27-2010 at 03:10 PM..
Old 04-26-2010, 05:35 PM
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You sure have a handle on that Innovate system! Congrats.
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00 Saab 95 Aero wagon stick
01 Saab 95 Aero wagon auto
03 Boxster
90 Chevy PU Prerunner....1990
Old 04-26-2010, 05:57 PM
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Thanks,

I will be a lot more confident when I'm seeing flashing displays and pretty Graphs.

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 04-27-2010, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cole930 View Post
Guys,

Appreciate all the kind words but you need to understand, I ain't no mental giant here. I'm just some dumb old fart that has made enough mistakes I get a few things right now and then completely by default. I stumble through all this stuff, I've just been stumbling longer than most. I always remember the wisdom of my father. "Even a blind Hog will find an acorn now and then."

Cole
My buddy Chris Bennet says "it's not so much experience as it is accumulated remorse"
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Old 04-27-2010, 07:43 PM
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Cole,
Thanks for the schematics and parts list! I'm still working on my Red Beast. Goal is to get it on the road in 3 wks. I'm doing too many little stuff to it and it's taking longer than I thought. How typical!
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9dreizig View Post
My buddy Chris Bennet says "it's not so much experience as it is accumulated remorse"
That's brilliant! (Jeeze, if only I had a time machine, my life would be mapping out quite differently now! )
Old 04-28-2010, 05:52 AM
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Guy's

I started this screwy journey a year or so ago and I may have just found the last piece of the puzzle.

I've envisioned the Innovate LM-1 as a real-time on board mini dyno since the day I first read about it. I had no idea it was going to be such a PIA but we are getting there. The LM-1 has a great logging and display capability through their Log Works software and I am presently capable of logging boost, manifold, pressure, control pressure, system pressure, afr's, and rpm and I am just about to add timing. I'm actually working to get a 5vdc output off a crank trigger that will log timing in the LM-1. I think we can put this altogether and download it into a laptop program that will pull it all together to give us a data map that will allow us to truly optimize tuning. Haven't got HP and Torque yet but the pieces are coming together.

I need anyone who is crazy enough too jump in here with some input, ideas, criticism, or just tell me I'm nuts.


Cole

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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 04-29-2010 at 09:19 PM..
Old 04-29-2010, 03:15 PM
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