Innovate LM2?

[RarlyL8]

That's pretty much what I want to do as well Dave. Don't know if that makes you less nuts or me more nuts.
For my purposes I need real-time data instead of dyno data. This will allow me to get a picture of what goes on during the "driveability" portion of operation. I have seen that much can be done to increase driveability in these cars; so much so that it blurs the line between CIS and EFI.
Time is my enemy. I'm all ears to those willing to trial and error these additional data logs.

[RarlyL8]

You're old school Dave so you have probably recurved a distributor or two in your day. There are significant gains to be made just doing that, so adding the MSD unit should really perk it up. Great data to have!

[cole930]

Brian,

The laptop sure beats the hell out of grinding weights on a bench grinder and wrapping springs on a piece of drill rod. I remember I couldn't afford the kits when they came out and I always made my own. I had to pump gas for a day to make the $6.00 to buy a kit and If I had ever even thought of asking my dad for $6.00 he would have given it to me but only after I had painted the house.

Back then I could by 33 gallons of gas for $6.00. When I was pumpig gas as a kid it was 17.9 cents a gallon and if the stations in town were having a gas war you could get it for 10 cents.

Cole

[RarlyL8]

Yes the bad old days. I remember grandad giving me a quarter after stacking hay in the barn loft all afternoon, ha!
I scrounged used parts from all my buddies, a lot of points that I could sand down and use for a couple months. Recurve kits are still on the hotrod market but the infinitely adjustable/programable MSD stuff is better when it works. Toss a super-glued sensor and you're stranded.
Anyway charting timing and fuel is what I'm after. I plan to keep using the (modified) stock components so will need to come up with a trigger pickup to feed signal to the LM-1. Can probably adapt something along the lines of what you have so I'll be looking over your shoulder.

[cole930]

Brian,

Well I'm back to square 1 on inputing timing. MSD just told me this trigger isnt compatable. I'm going back on the hunt. MSD has many systems to use but nothing for 6 cyl Porsche.

Cole

[WERK I]

Cole,
I was shopping around for a different ignition system last Winter. A rep told me the Accel DFI Gen 8 released in April this year supports 60-2 tooth crank input. I did not ask if it had to be Hall Effect and Mag Input.
It has to be Gen 8 though, previous versions, Gen 7, for instance did not support 60-2.

sorry for the off-topic response.

[cole930]

David,

Thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out.

Cole

[WERK I]

Forgot to mention it's the Accel Gen 8 ICM (Ignition Control Management) vs. the Accel Gen 8 ECM (Engine Control Management systems. That is unless you want to go EFI.

[tj930]

Hi Guys,

Thanks to David (FlatSix777) 's instruction and help, I'm now in the game

Just one thing, I think I'd really benefit from logging the speed (MPH), too. I'm trying to remember - does the signal come from a wire off the gearbox? Or would you recommend attaching to the wires into the back of the gauge?

[smurfbus]

2nd on the speed. I just managed to get rpms (MSD rpm output) and boost (boost gauge T-line ) on mine.

[billjam]

tj,
I hooked up my LMA-3 to the speedo sensor but I don't get a proper reading from it.
There is a calibration process that is covered in the Innovate manual, however my speed log just doesn't seem to register properly.
I'd also be interested in hearing from others how they have done it.
I spliced into the speedo sensor wires in the tunnel.

[flatsix777]

Originally Posted by tj930

Just one thing, I think I'd really benefit from logging the speed (MPH), too. I'm trying to remember - does the signal come from a wire off the gearbox? Or would you recommend attaching to the wires into the back of the gauge?

Logging speed is on my list too but the LM-2 can't do it directly. The additional channels are analogue and can only take 0-5V inputs whereas the electronic speed sensor on a 930 produces a pulsed signal (i.e frequency). To make it work you need to convert a frequency signal to a DC voltage; I haven't worked it out properly but I think you can get these from places like Maplin in UK (or perhaps Radio Shack in US?) quite inexpensively and make it yourself.

Alternatively I think you can use the LMA-3 with the LM-2 just like with the LM-1. It is meant to already have the ability to convert the speedo sensor output into 0-5V. Unfortunately you won't be able to read speed directly off the LM-2 though as there is no way to calibrate it - this is done using LogWorks on a laptop. I presume it's the same for the LM-1. Bill - the only reasons I can think of for this not working is if the LMA-3 output is over 5V or is suffering lots of interference making it unstable? Both can be sorted easily.

Edit : just realised you have an LC-1 so please ignore as don't know how this works.

David

[smurfbus]

Bill: Can you check which color the speed line was. I was under the car yesterday but forgot to check how the speed wire routes. I think the sensor the one on the right side halfshaft? Another possibility is RF of the gearbox.

[billjam]

Originally Posted by smurfbus

Bill: Can you check which color the speed line was. I was under the car yesterday but forgot to check how the speed wire routes. I think the sensor the one on the right side halfshaft? Another possibility is RF of the gearbox.

The speed sensor is on the RHS of the diff housing and has a brown (ground) wire and a green signal wire which go to the speedo.
I spliced into the green wire (in the tunnel near the gear linkage joint) and ran it to a terminal on my LMA-3.
I worked through the procedure in the manual and calibrated the number of pulses/mile in Logworks but the speed reading on output logs doesn't register properly. As flatsix777 says, "the only reasons I can think of for this not working is if the LMA-3 output is over 5V or is suffering lots of interference making it unstable? Both can be sorted easily."
I may be suffering from either or both of these issues, so I'd love to hear details from anyone who has conquered this.

[flatsix777]

Originally Posted by billjam

I may be suffering from either or both of these issues, so I'd love to hear details from anyone who has conquered this.

I don't have any experience with the LMA-2 and LC-1 so this may not be directly helpful. However, the LM-2 has one or both of these issues when logging rpm (unstable due to intererence) and oil pressure /temp (both peak over 5V). The solution on input voltage is a simple voltage reducer (post 10 explains) and for interference the use of coax cable with a metal shield earthed at either end. Sounds involved but worked for me. I had thought the other Innovate kit was plug and play though.

David

[john930]

Anny success with measuring and recording the output from the speedo to an LM-2??

[boxermania]

Just a couple of things to keep in mind when using Innovate products or for that matter any solid state circuitry.

Use a single ground referencing the chassis ground, multiple grounds lead to ground loops resulting in noisy signals.

All analog inputs have to be ranged 0 to 5 volts, if the range is larger the signal will have to be run through a divider network to reduce the voltag range.

Regarding RPM, the Innovate system recognize 1 pulse per rotation, period, however one can use an inexpansive indutive clamp on (like a timming light) and run it directly to the LM-1A analog input. Please note that the inductive pick-up doesn't work with CDI or multiple spark ignitions (too short a pulse on the frist one and too many pulses on the latter)

[ZV8888]

I've got my LM2 AFR up and running (Soon to add RPM). Anyone like to share with us what sort of AFR results they have managed to get?

On my Euro 79 SC:

Idle: 14.1
Load: 12.5
Cruise: 13.5
Warm up: 11.5

I was hoping to score better on cruise, but I haven't managed it. If I lean out much more, my idle goes too lean.

[dicklague]

I could share results, but not on a turbo, but a 2.7 MFI engine.

[RarlyL8]

ZV - your idle and cruise are backwards. Adjust your fuel mixture screw to get the idle to 13.5:1 and see where you are with the other readings.