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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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That's pretty much what I want to do as well Dave. Don't know if that makes you less nuts or me more nuts.
For my purposes I need real-time data instead of dyno data. This will allow me to get a picture of what goes on during the "driveability" portion of operation. I have seen that much can be done to increase driveability in these cars; so much so that it blurs the line between CIS and EFI.
Time is my enemy. I'm all ears to those willing to trial and error these additional data logs.

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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-29-2010, 09:07 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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You're old school Dave so you have probably recurved a distributor or two in your day. There are significant gains to be made just doing that, so adding the MSD unit should really perk it up. Great data to have!
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-30-2010, 05:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #62 (permalink)
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Brian,

The laptop sure beats the hell out of grinding weights on a bench grinder and wrapping springs on a piece of drill rod. I remember I couldn't afford the kits when they came out and I always made my own. I had to pump gas for a day to make the $6.00 to buy a kit and If I had ever even thought of asking my dad for $6.00 he would have given it to me but only after I had painted the house.

Back then I could by 33 gallons of gas for $6.00. When I was pumpig gas as a kid it was 17.9 cents a gallon and if the stations in town were having a gas war you could get it for 10 cents.

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 04-30-2010 at 06:14 AM..
Old 04-30-2010, 05:25 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Yes the bad old days. I remember grandad giving me a quarter after stacking hay in the barn loft all afternoon, ha!
I scrounged used parts from all my buddies, a lot of points that I could sand down and use for a couple months. Recurve kits are still on the hotrod market but the infinitely adjustable/programable MSD stuff is better when it works. Toss a super-glued sensor and you're stranded.
Anyway charting timing and fuel is what I'm after. I plan to keep using the (modified) stock components so will need to come up with a trigger pickup to feed signal to the LM-1. Can probably adapt something along the lines of what you have so I'll be looking over your shoulder.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-30-2010, 06:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #64 (permalink)
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Brian,

Well I'm back to square 1 on inputing timing. MSD just told me this trigger isnt compatable. I'm going back on the hunt. MSD has many systems to use but nothing for 6 cyl Porsche.

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 04-30-2010, 08:53 AM
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Cole,
I was shopping around for a different ignition system last Winter. A rep told me the Accel DFI Gen 8 released in April this year supports 60-2 tooth crank input. I did not ask if it had to be Hall Effect and Mag Input.
It has to be Gen 8 though, previous versions, Gen 7, for instance did not support 60-2.

sorry for the off-topic response.
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Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P

Last edited by WERK I; 05-01-2010 at 06:48 AM..
Old 05-01-2010, 06:24 AM
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David,

Thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out.

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 05-01-2010, 01:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #67 (permalink)
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Forgot to mention it's the Accel Gen 8 ICM (Ignition Control Management) vs. the Accel Gen 8 ECM (Engine Control Management systems. That is unless you want to go EFI.
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Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 05-01-2010, 02:59 PM
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Hi Guys,

Thanks to David (FlatSix777) 's instruction and help, I'm now in the game

Just one thing, I think I'd really benefit from logging the speed (MPH), too. I'm trying to remember - does the signal come from a wire off the gearbox? Or would you recommend attaching to the wires into the back of the gauge?
Old 06-16-2010, 03:56 AM
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2nd on the speed. I just managed to get rpms (MSD rpm output) and boost (boost gauge T-line ) on mine.
Old 06-16-2010, 04:07 AM
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tj,
I hooked up my LMA-3 to the speedo sensor but I don't get a proper reading from it.
There is a calibration process that is covered in the Innovate manual, however my speed log just doesn't seem to register properly.
I'd also be interested in hearing from others how they have done it.
I spliced into the speedo sensor wires in the tunnel.
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Bill
1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 06-16-2010, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tj930 View Post
Just one thing, I think I'd really benefit from logging the speed (MPH), too. I'm trying to remember - does the signal come from a wire off the gearbox? Or would you recommend attaching to the wires into the back of the gauge?
Logging speed is on my list too but the LM-2 can't do it directly. The additional channels are analogue and can only take 0-5V inputs whereas the electronic speed sensor on a 930 produces a pulsed signal (i.e frequency). To make it work you need to convert a frequency signal to a DC voltage; I haven't worked it out properly but I think you can get these from places like Maplin in UK (or perhaps Radio Shack in US?) quite inexpensively and make it yourself.

Alternatively I think you can use the LMA-3 with the LM-2 just like with the LM-1. It is meant to already have the ability to convert the speedo sensor output into 0-5V. Unfortunately you won't be able to read speed directly off the LM-2 though as there is no way to calibrate it - this is done using LogWorks on a laptop. I presume it's the same for the LM-1. Bill - the only reasons I can think of for this not working is if the LMA-3 output is over 5V or is suffering lots of interference making it unstable? Both can be sorted easily.

Edit : just realised you have an LC-1 so please ignore as don't know how this works.

David
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1984 ROW 930 - Stock except Rarlyl8 1-out, Andial IC, Air Pump delete, Carrera & Setrab Coolers, 0.8bar & LM-2

Last edited by flatsix777; 06-16-2010 at 02:50 PM..
Old 06-16-2010, 02:29 PM
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Turbofrog
 
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Bill: Can you check which color the speed line was. I was under the car yesterday but forgot to check how the speed wire routes. I think the sensor the one on the right side halfshaft? Another possibility is RF of the gearbox.
Old 06-16-2010, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
Bill: Can you check which color the speed line was. I was under the car yesterday but forgot to check how the speed wire routes. I think the sensor the one on the right side halfshaft? Another possibility is RF of the gearbox.
The speed sensor is on the RHS of the diff housing and has a brown (ground) wire and a green signal wire which go to the speedo.
I spliced into the green wire (in the tunnel near the gear linkage joint) and ran it to a terminal on my LMA-3.
I worked through the procedure in the manual and calibrated the number of pulses/mile in Logworks but the speed reading on output logs doesn't register properly. As flatsix777 says, "the only reasons I can think of for this not working is if the LMA-3 output is over 5V or is suffering lots of interference making it unstable? Both can be sorted easily."
I may be suffering from either or both of these issues, so I'd love to hear details from anyone who has conquered this.
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1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 06-17-2010, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billjam View Post
I may be suffering from either or both of these issues, so I'd love to hear details from anyone who has conquered this.
I don't have any experience with the LMA-2 and LC-1 so this may not be directly helpful. However, the LM-2 has one or both of these issues when logging rpm (unstable due to intererence) and oil pressure /temp (both peak over 5V). The solution on input voltage is a simple voltage reducer (post 10 explains) and for interference the use of coax cable with a metal shield earthed at either end. Sounds involved but worked for me. I had thought the other Innovate kit was plug and play though.

David
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1984 ROW 930 - Stock except Rarlyl8 1-out, Andial IC, Air Pump delete, Carrera & Setrab Coolers, 0.8bar & LM-2
Old 06-17-2010, 04:20 PM
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update?

Anny success with measuring and recording the output from the speedo to an LM-2??
Old 08-07-2010, 11:02 PM
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Just a couple of things to keep in mind when using Innovate products or for that matter any solid state circuitry.

Use a single ground referencing the chassis ground, multiple grounds lead to ground loops resulting in noisy signals.

All analog inputs have to be ranged 0 to 5 volts, if the range is larger the signal will have to be run through a divider network to reduce the voltag range.

Regarding RPM, the Innovate system recognize 1 pulse per rotation, period, however one can use an inexpansive indutive clamp on (like a timming light) and run it directly to the LM-1A analog input. Please note that the inductive pick-up doesn't work with CDI or multiple spark ignitions (too short a pulse on the frist one and too many pulses on the latter)
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Al Morales
77 911 S (930 steel conversion)
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Old 08-08-2010, 04:34 PM
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I've got my LM2 AFR up and running (Soon to add RPM). Anyone like to share with us what sort of AFR results they have managed to get?

On my Euro 79 SC:

Idle: 14.1
Load: 12.5
Cruise: 13.5
Warm up: 11.5

I was hoping to score better on cruise, but I haven't managed it. If I lean out much more, my idle goes too lean.
Old 09-14-2010, 06:10 AM
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I could share results, but not on a turbo, but a 2.7 MFI engine.
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:06 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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ZV - your idle and cruise are backwards. Adjust your fuel mixture screw to get the idle to 13.5:1 and see where you are with the other readings.

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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 09-14-2010, 02:53 PM
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