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Porsche Crest Innovate LM2?

Has anyone used/installed a LM2 yet?

I have ordered one to install and was wondering where others have installed them and also the best place to hook up the inputs.

I am thinking of getting an aftermarket MAP sensor for logging boost but where is the best place to hook up to log RPMs?

I am hoping to log AFRs, RPMs and boost and try to figure out some tuning issues.

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'85 930 - Black on Black
'95 993 Turbo - Silver
Old 11-24-2008, 07:12 PM
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Doh!

I've just bought one of these today and was searching for some edifying postings/threads on here.

Ben, did you manage to get everything figured out?
Old 04-01-2010, 11:47 AM
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BEN,

I have a LM 1 and I use a GM 3Bar MAP you can find them on Ebay pretty reasonably the GM P# is 12223861 and you can get the proper connector from MSD for $8.50 MSD P# 8172

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 04-01-2010, 02:20 PM
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I've had a devil of a time with my LM-1. I have only used it for AFRs in the past and want to log boost, fuel pressure and RPMs. I can't get the damned thing to produce a good graph. The instructions are crap and I can't get any help on the "help" line.
Help?
I think I have a grounding problem with the accessory cable. Anyone else using one of these?
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-01-2010, 06:34 PM
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Lm-2

I used a GM 3 bar map sensor,and an LC-1 and XD-16 gauge to read AFRs. It is important to ground everything via a single point as they recommend. I have an LM-2 to log AFRS/RPMs/boost. I took my boost signal off the wastegate supply.


Old 04-01-2010, 08:50 PM
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I agree with you Brian. I think the rpm and analog inputs section sucks.. Noisy as hell
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Old 04-01-2010, 09:03 PM
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I'm running the LM-1 wired in the car, I have a 100psi Pressure Transducer, RPM, O2 sensor, and 3 Bar MAP. I used the LM2-A which is the Innovate RPM aux cable for all the inputs. I also added a Greddy Boost Controller, an AFR display, and a MSD 6AL-2 programmable ignition. I put a mounting plate under the pass. seat and tied everything together there. The one thing that was stressed for all these additions was a good ground. I ran a seperate ground wire from the neg. batt. terminal to a mounting plate ground bar and then to the rear chassis ground lug behind the fuel filter. This way all the different components are grounded to the Neg. Batt treminal and all the signals are very clean. My engine is out so I haven't been able to do any programming yet but I can find all the inputs on the LM-1. I would stress that direct ground connection to make sure all the devices have a direct ground path.

Brian: I got the wastegates torn down and one diaphram had a small hole. The other 2 are good. If you need a diaphram for your car I'll send my spare, if you were just looking for a spare I'd rather keep it. I have 2 springs to send you I believe one is 1.0 and the other is stock. I couldn't check them so I can't say that is exactly correct. Let me know on the diaphram, if it's to get you going it's yours.

Here are some pics.of the install:















Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 04-01-2010, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmsy View Post
Has anyone used/installed a LM2 yet?

I have ordered one to install and was wondering where others have installed them and also the best place to hook up the inputs.

I am thinking of getting an aftermarket MAP sensor for logging boost but where is the best place to hook up to log RPMs?

I am hoping to log AFRs, RPMs and boost and try to figure out some tuning issues.
Ben,
I can't help with LM2 but FWIW I have LC-1, LMA-3 (aux box) and G5 AFR gauge installed and working fine. I mounted the LMA-3 under the RH seat. The LC-1 (for the O2 sensor) is in the LH side of engine bay. Let me know if you want pics.
LMA-3 has a MAP input port direct from the manifold so I didn't have to setup an electronic sensor, which is convenient.
I had a few problems getting it all working properly and eventually sent the LMA-3 back to Innovate for repairs, after which it was fine. I can log MAP, AFR, RPM, acceleration and side G. I have another input connected to speedo sensor but can't get it calibrated properly.
I have wiring diagram as fitted in my car if you want, but I expect LM2 may be different. Still, it may give you some ideas if you are starting from scratch.
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1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
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Old 04-02-2010, 04:47 AM
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I got a unit too. Got the AFR's to work (after calibration of the system). I tried the rpm but it is not working yet. In my car I took the signal from the electromotive unit (which works on the stock tach). I only hooked up the + cable. Will try a potentiometer on it next. Tried it on a miata and the rpms worked there. Also tried one analog signal (+) but it didn't work either. Right now the "big" project is breaking in the engine, so the LM2 is secondary for now.
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Old 04-02-2010, 03:56 PM
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I installed an LM-2 a while back and log AFR, RPM, Boost, Oil Pressure and Oil Temperature. It’s not “plug and play” as you need to get a very clean RPM feed and also reduce the signal voltages on the other sensors. I used the stock boost sensor and it works fine, although it's obviously reading boost before the throttle plate so gives a slightly different reading to my mechanical guage. The LM-2 has generally been fine but does freeze occasionally. I used an 18ft cable and have the unit in the glovebox.




For RPM I started by trying to use the tach signal out of the CDI (Blk & Violet) but this was useless and so in the end I hooked it up straight to the coil (-ve terminal). This produced a very random & unstable reading so I used miniature co-axial cable with a steel shield (earthed at either end) to clean it and then smoothed it by running the signal into the LM-2 through a 1M potentiometer, acting as a voltage divider. By tuning the pot you can damp out the spikes leaving a stable output. You need to configure the LM-2 in the relevant sub-menu; settings aren’t very clear but the ones I’m using are:
• Falling edge (you have a choice of rising or falling edge on the configuration menu.)
• Cal 6 – 3 pulses per cycle (you have around half a dozen choices to configure to different numbers of cylinders).

The three potentiometer terminals are connected up as follows:
• The two outer ones go to ground (same place as the earth for the LM-2 power supply) and to the tach signal (from co-ax) respectively. Doesn’t matter which way round.
• The middle terminal goes to the LM-2 analogue feed (RPM +ve Blk/Wht)
• The co-ax shield goes to the common earth and the LM-2 RPM –ve input (Blue) also goes to common earth.

Mine looks like this:



The AFR signal was straight forward:





I took signals from the sensors for boost, temperature and pressure into the available analogue inputs on the LM-2. The difficulty is that the LM-2 can only accept a 0-5V input so it’s necessary to reduce voltages. I used a 10K pre-set potentiometer for each signal, a 5.1V 0.5W Zenner diode on the output to the LM2 (between output & earth) to protect it from any spikes above 5V and also a 1K 0.6W resistor in series on the input to the pot. I simply followed a diagram in the LM-2 manual. It's then just a matter of setting the pot to give the right ratio reduction; in my case 49% reduced for temp and 36% for oil. Here's what the reducer looked like:



Calibration data that I used is as below:



Here’s a screen shot of data in logworks:



Good luck & hope this helps.

David
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1984 ROW 930 - Stock except Rarlyl8 1-out, Andial IC, Air Pump delete, Carrera & Setrab Coolers, 0.8bar & LM-2
Old 04-02-2010, 04:13 PM
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Very nice setup David.

I built a separate 5vdc power supply from about $8.00 in Radio Shack parts that works very well. It's the black box on the mounting plate under the Pass seat. If anyone is in need of one I have a schematic and parts list.

I also found a lot of help from the Innovate Forums on their web site. They do a great question answer type interaction with an Innovate Tech and it's good real world application stuff that addresses a lot of the common issues.

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 04-02-2010, 05:46 PM
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Are you freakin' kidding me? I didn't realize you had to be a EE to set one of these things up.

In English, where do I ground everything and what gage wire works best? My readings are all very noisy and the tach barely responds at all. The tach lead is attached to the (-) coil terminal.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-02-2010, 08:44 PM
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@David, Thanks a lot - this is precisely the type of information I was looking for!

Looks like I could do it, but I'd better not. (I hate wrecking 100s of £s of equipment!) I think I'd better let this young, electronics whizz I know get his soldering iron out.

Thinking about it, though, as interesting as Oil Pressure and Temperature are, I think I'd value MPH a bit more. (Though this could be a bit incriminating )

Last edited by tj930; 04-03-2010 at 01:00 PM..
Old 04-03-2010, 12:10 PM
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How are you all getting the cables inside the vehicle? Using the shifter tunnel? Did you make an extra hole on the outside that still comes into the shifter tunnel? Any pics of this?
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Old 04-03-2010, 01:09 PM
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Don't know if a '79 is the same nut on an '87 there is a rubber plug/grommet in a hole just above the floor pan down behind the driver seat.
Thats where I ran the Innovate LC-1 and MSD 8762 wires into my car, and then on up along the edge of the center tunnel under the the seats and under the carpet.

Here's pic of it with a red arrow pointing at it.
Old 04-03-2010, 02:43 PM
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J.

There are 3 access holes in the tunnel, one in the front just to the right of the accelerator pedal, the shifter hole, and the shift coupler hole where the tunnel hits the back seat. I determined how many and what type of wires I needed and put them inside a plastic wire sleeve and pulled the sleeve through the tunnel from front to back. The sleeve exits the back through the speedometer cable boot in the end of the tunnel. You'll need about 3 ft. of wires inside the engine bay to route them to where you want. The Batt. negative I ran came directly off the negative terminal of the batt., a number 6 wire, and I ran it along the drivers side of the trunk into the pedal box area and then through the tunnel. For my mounting plate under the drivers seat I detoured the wire bundle through the side of the tunnel at the passenger seat area. Be very careful when drilling any access holes in either side of the tunnel. The fuel lines run along the drivers side on the tunnel and the main wiring harness runs along the passengers side.

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 04-11-2010 at 06:06 PM..
Old 04-03-2010, 03:35 PM
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That is a nice setup Cole. I notice on the RPM module that you do not have a ground hooked up to the last attachment port, which on mine is for the ground wire. Did you do something different there?
Today I ran an new ground from that last grounding port to the fan shroud on the engine. That is the spot one of my buddies uses and his signals are pretty clean. I haven't tried it out yet, hope to do that tomorrow. I really need to get this working as it is delaying my dyno runs. I want to log all this data during the dyno runs to really see what is going on.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-03-2010, 08:32 PM
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Brian,

It's difficult to see but what appears to be the first terminal on the left end of the LM2-A is actually a blank, the 2nd terminal from the left is the ground term on mine and there is a brown ground wire attached to it. My lousy photography doesn't help.

Cole
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Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 04-04-2010, 12:34 PM
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Yes Cole I notice that now, mine is the same. So you are grounded to the battery negative terminal. The LM-1 "instructions" mension taking all the grounds to a common at the engine. Why the engine and not the chassis? Is the battery ground better than the engine ground?
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-04-2010, 07:46 PM
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Brian,

I, in no way, shape, or form, profess I understand the idiosyncrasies electrical / electronic grounding. I do know, as in most auto applications, the body of our cars is used by most all components as the ground for those components. The only exceptions too that might be the starter circuit, EFI systems, ECU's, and some Ignition systems. Most exceptions exist because of heavy current draw, as in the case of the starter, or isolation as in the case of DCU, and EFI's.

The reason I decided to run a separate ground for the LM-1 is that many of the devices providing input information to the LM-1 are low voltage with low current input signals and are noise sensitive. I felt that those were not conducive to exposure to constant and varying current draw and noise from all the other electrical components attached to a body ground system with 30 year old connections. Least of which is an engine ground supplied by a braided strap from the body to the transmission.

It took about 30 min. to run a #6 well insulated ground wire from the Battery negative terminal to the mounting plate under the pass seat and then to engine compartment. This creates a seperate common ground for the LM-1 and it's associated components. It very well may not make a damn bit of difference but it is easier when trouble shooting the LM-1 input issues and it makes me feel better.

Cole

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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 04-05-2010 at 01:44 PM..
Old 04-05-2010, 01:37 PM
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