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Max Sluiter
 
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What is the difference in cooling between spraying the intercooler with water or some other coolant and spraying water/alcohol into the intake air charge?

I realize spraying the H2O/CH2OH into the airstream will cool the engine more quickly but do you really need that quick reaction? If you spray the intercooler sooner and have proper airflow, there should be roughly the same amount of heat energy removed.

Does H2O in the combustion chamber have any detrimental effects on power or is it miniscule in the concentrations being used here?
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Last edited by Flieger; 12-02-2008 at 09:52 PM..
Old 12-02-2008, 09:49 PM
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I think it would be alot easier to cool the outside of the intercooler than running plumbing to spray inside the intake manifold. The added benefit of having the vapor resultant sucked over the engine by the cooling fan to add extra engine cooling.
This should make the intercooler more efficient and thus reduce intake charge air temps. Spraying water or windshield washer fluid tapped off the existing fluid tank in the front fender shold work nicely.
I wonder if anyone has taken temp readings of the intercooler charge air between the intake and outlet to see what temp rise during on track boost type cycles. Then spray the coolant mist on the intercooler surface and see any drop in delta temps.
Anyone done this yet?
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Old 12-05-2008, 09:18 AM
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I'd say this is a waste of effort for a 930.

I've messed with it and it is....a mess. Water on the IC = a drippy mess at the bottom of the intercooler, with no appreciable gains.

Your smartest move would be:

A) Sealing off - shrouding - the IC to the tail
B) Attaching pull fans to the underside of the IC - this makes a BIG difference.

Reduced my outlet temperatures by about 30 degrees, down to 130 max from a dangerous 160 -
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Old 12-05-2008, 09:36 AM
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I want to try what Craig speaks of by shrouding the I/C better to the wing and then adding some nasty fans underneath it. I also want to put a meth-injection system in- I want it all in order to keep intake temps down.
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:27 PM
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Do it! But skip the injection - the temps will be nice and low w/o it.

I use an Andial an IC in/out temp gauge which verified my 'experiments' ;-)
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Old 12-05-2008, 01:25 PM
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I am going to do the fans and shrouding and when money allows maybe the injection, but if I am going to do it I will have to do it my way. But the next sizeable chunk of change I get will be for better brake pads and maybe rotors (uhhhumm- Craig...)
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Last edited by 930gt-40r; 12-07-2008 at 01:32 PM..
Old 12-05-2008, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmeister View Post
I think it would be alot easier to cool the outside of the intercooler than running plumbing to spray inside the intake manifold. The added benefit of having the vapor resultant sucked over the engine by the cooling fan to add extra engine cooling.
Fred, the water/meth injection directly into the tb is more efficient because it would take far less coolant for the same reduction in temp than if you were to spray coolant directly onto the i/c. To cool externally you'd maybe have to carry 15 gallons of coolant on-board vs. 1/2 gallon.
I also don't think the level of mechanical complexity would be much different between the two systems.
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Old 12-07-2008, 06:02 AM
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hmmm.

I think most of what you wanted to know was answerd but i'll add to this.
typically I dont like such kits myself, but they can have very rewarding benifits.

A. I never liked the idea of spraying directly onto the intercool a combustable fuel regardless.
It's just common sensible thought.

B. If you are going to spray a liquid substance onto the intercooler I recommend a distilled water, however this will be most efficiant when moving. In my opinion, for most Porsche applications its somewhat a cumbersome outfit.

C. If you are going to directly inject a fuel of some type, Aquamist is pretty popular.
They are typically standalone, they can be triggerd psi, rpm, and other various ways.

I also want to point out that you are going to take into consideration that meth typically
will mix into your oil and cause it to thin out and not provide you with the same resistance
it once did.

Good luck.
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Old 12-07-2008, 10:03 AM
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Can an injector bung be welded to the long neck portion of the intercooler just above the throttle body and still work properly?

I'm just thinking this would be easier to do.

Old 12-07-2008, 10:19 AM
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A930ROCKET- Did you break the rear tab off of your Kokeln or is that another I/C- I broke the same mounting location off of my Kokeln and I repaired it.

As for meth injection- If you could guarantee even distribution, Meth injection not only cools everything it contacts, it raises the spark point of whatever fuel you are running, and it cleans everything it comes in contact with. Methanol injection is the $hit to have- there doesn't need to be any testing to prove that it is great, just look at the STI and Evolution guys who make race-gas numbers on pump-gas with meth-injection.
However there are draw-backs: Refilling, added complexity, oil contamination, and uneven distribution depending on situation. If I go to do one of these setups in my car, I am going to run individual jets per cylinder to make everything consistent. Once I have made sure that everything is even, then I would concentrate on tuning every last horse out of the car through ignition timing and maybe pulling a little fuel out here and there. I know it sounds like over-kill, but think about nitrous guys- they run direct port shots (which is THE safest way to run spray) to guarantee equal spray per cylinder. Call me insane, but that is my take on it.
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A930Rocket View Post
Can an injector bung be welded to the long neck portion of the intercooler just above the throttle body and still work properly?
I'm just thinking this would be easier to do.
Snow Performance's Installation Instructions state "perpindicular" to airflow. Your proposed nozzle location seems appropriate.
Old 12-07-2008, 01:38 PM
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That's the way it came.

I'd like to say I had the talent and money to go with individual injectors, but I have neither. The timimg will stay the same but like a bigger I/C, ths will help with temps and prevent detonation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
A930ROCKET- Did you break the rear tab off of your Kokeln or is that another I/C- I broke the same mounting location off of my Kokeln and I repaired it.

As for meth injection- If you could guarantee even distribution, Meth injection not only cools everything it contacts, it raises the spark point of whatever fuel you are running, and it cleans everything it comes in contact with. Methanol injection is the $hit to have- there doesn't need to be any testing to prove that it is great, just look at the STI and Evolution guys who make race-gas numbers on pump-gas with meth-injection.
However there are draw-backs: Refilling, added complexity, oil contamination, and uneven distribution depending on situation. If I go to do one of these setups in my car, I am going to run individual jets per cylinder to make everything consistent. Once I have made sure that everything is even, then I would concentrate on tuning every last horse out of the car through ignition timing and maybe pulling a little fuel out here and there. I know it sounds like over-kill, but think about nitrous guys- they run direct port shots (which is THE safest way to run spray) to guarantee equal spray per cylinder. Call me insane, but that is my take on it.
Old 12-07-2008, 05:33 PM
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Thanks Chris.

What's the other device near your meth injector?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 356-930 View Post
Snow Performance's Installation Instructions state "perpindicular" to airflow. Your proposed nozzle location seems appropriate.
Old 12-07-2008, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A930Rocket View Post
Thanks Chris.
What's the other device near your meth injector?
The pressure transducer that feeds the Zeitronix data logger.
Old 12-07-2008, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A930Rocket View Post
That's the way it came.
I'd like to say I had the talent and money to go with individual injectors, but I have neither. The timimg will stay the same but like a bigger I/C, ths will help with temps and prevent detonation.
Dont say you dont have the skill- you do-
Now the money thing- yea... I kinda got the same problem.
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:00 PM
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