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Essen Slantnoses

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Originally Posted by onboost View Post
So I thought this one was pretty sweet... seen Essen Motor Show

I took that shot about 8 years back. It was one of 3 Slantnoses on display at the show (the other two both being US spec cabriolets). I remember thinking that the asking price of the white cab with very low miles at €98k Euro was ridiculous at the time (about $75k USD)!





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1986 911 Turbo SE ('C31')
Old 01-03-2017, 02:07 PM
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how about the front fender liners?
Ive got pics ill upload later.
Old 01-03-2017, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 930SE View Post
I took that shot about 8 years back. It was one of 3 Slantnoses on display at the show (the other two both being US spec cabriolets).
Great shot 930SE! No idea that picture was that old. I found that while pounding around on the net a figured it truly belonged on this thread. Haven't always been a fan of that shade of yellow but that pic was stunning!

Always much to see at the Essen show.. one that's on my hit list!
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Last edited by onboost; 01-05-2017 at 06:48 PM..
Old 01-05-2017, 08:12 AM
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Essen

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Great shot 930SE! Know idea that picture was that old. I found that while pounding around on the net a figured it truly belonged on this thread. Haven't always been a fan of that shade of yellow but that pic was stunning!

Always much to see at the Essen show.. one that's on my hit list!
Essen really should be on any real car guy's bucket list. Amazing show. The quantity and quality of top end exhibits is mind blowing. You need a full weekend, if not 3+ days to see round it properly. One year I was there they had a complete hall dedicated to Porsche race cars.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #1164 (permalink)
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So, I had told WERK I about this and had decided to wait to see if I got any more info on my 82 Flachbau. Since Porsche is being absolutely ZERO help, here is what I learned.
Some quick background: car was ordered in 6/81, original owner saw the very first Flachbau getting ready to come off the line. This cart ordered the next day. Delivered 3/82
While attending Rennsport V, I ran into several high level folks in the classics division. We (myself and the other 2 owners of this car) have had nothing but difficulties getting any info about build numbers, sequence and frankly anything else out of Porsche, I thought I'd try in person. Showed photos of my car (which was sitting around the corner) to the reps and asked for help. They both smiled and stated, "we know that car". HUH?!? This car or this production model?!? After much back and forth, I asked them straight out, "how many of these were fabricated?". Both answered in unison, "oh, maybe 10". TEN!!! I've always read somewhere between 30 and 40 (depending on the source). I was then told that Porsche FOUND THE OLD RECORDS. Yep, we were always told the records were lost/gone/destroyed. Nope. They found "boxes" of old records from Zuffhausen in an unused basement room and hadn't had the time to sort or archive them yet. The boxes were unsorted with files placed randomly and no sense of date or any order at all. This is NOT urban legend. I personally spoke with these 2 reps. After multiple assurances that they had an older tech who was near retirement and loved going through old records, they would be in contact with more info. Well, as usual, after many emails back and forth, I got ANOTHER COA stating "slant nose body modification". Geez, thanks, I have 3 already. This seems to be Porsches way off telling you to go away. Wanted to get this out into the conversation so other owners of these Special Wishes cars know that the records do exist. Good luck every getting any info!
My "baby" getting ready for Rennsport V.

Last edited by MT2thDOC; 02-16-2017 at 08:20 AM..
Old 02-16-2017, 08:14 AM
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Dan,
PM replied
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Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 02-16-2017, 08:46 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #1166 (permalink)
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MT2thDOC,
I fully understand your frustration, but I can also sympathize with the Porsche Classics division. From a pricing model, generating profit from the production of parts for early cars is a no-brainer, but in terms of researching vehicle provenance, what's in it for them? I think PCNA is partly to blame since the CoA pricing model doesn't take into account custom work that was undertaken by the Sunderwunsch group.
Keep in mind the Werk I facility not only did the body work, but they also had a drivetrain facility which performed special engine modifications requested by customers for the Sonderwunsch cars. I imagine somewhere buried in those records are mods based on engine serial ID. I have had zero luck, thus far, regarding the 330BHP optioned engine in my slant and yet I know based on the information gathered during my rebuild, it was built up from Porsche custom parts.
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 02-16-2017, 09:06 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #1167 (permalink)
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WERK I,
I agree. I was able to get confirmation that on my model, the fiberglass work was NOT done at WERK I. The front dam with the twin lights had to be contracted out to another division (this is where it gets sketchy). Each dam was fabricated individually and placed on the car then gapped and refinished prior to paint. Most of these dams ripped off or fractured as soon as the car was "tracked". Consequently, many have been replaced or just cut-off and remoded.
Interestingly, I also have the 330 BHP engine in mine. The engine was available early in 82 (as far as I can tell) but my chassis is an 81. I believe the custom body work took long enough that this engine was available by the time the car was going through final assembly. This car is really a mishmash of the 2 model years (again, probably due to Zuffhausen and fabrication time) and is really an odd girl. The original owner actually raced LeMans and had the car set-up to track. By the time the car delivered he had bought a Ferrari (HERESY!!) and the slant just sat around only driven once in a while. I have a stack of old Xerox copies of all the paperwork that is being laminated to prevent any further degrading. Also, digital copies. Someday, I'll get the info on this car (or my grandkids might)!

Last edited by MT2thDOC; 02-16-2017 at 11:15 AM..
Old 02-16-2017, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT2thDOC View Post
So, I had told WERK I about this and had decided to wait to see if I got any more info on my 82 Flachbau. Since Porsche is being absolutely ZERO help, here is what I learned.

While attending Rennsport V, I ran into several high level folks in the classics division. We (myself and the other 2 owners of this car) have had nothing but difficulties getting any info about build numbers, sequence and frankly anything else out of Porsche, I thought I'd try in person. Showed photos of my car (which was sitting around the corner) to the reps and asked for help. They both smiled and stated, "we know that car". HUH?!? This car or this production model?!? After much back and forth, I asked them straight out, "how many of these were fabricated?". Both answered in unison, "oh, maybe 10". TEN!!! I've always read somewhere between 30 and 40 (depending on the source).

I was then told that Porsche FOUND THE OLD RECORDS. Yep, we were always told the records were lost/gone/destroyed. Nope. They found "boxes" of old records from Zuffhausen in an unused basement room and hadn't had the time to sort or archive them yet. The boxes were unsorted with files placed randomly and no sense of date or any order at all. This is NOT urban legend.

I personally spoke with these 2 reps. After multiple assurances that they had an older tech who was near retirement and loved going through old records, they would be in contact with more info. Well, as usual, after many emails back and forth, I got ANOTHER COA stating "slant nose body modification".
MT2thDOC,
You got lucky as you were able to at least speak with someone that had a clue, knew what you were talking about, and actually knew your car! We recently displayed a 74 Carrera at a concours, had two young gents from "Porsche Classic" come over.. we quizzed them about several early production cars and one special wishes car and they totally had no clue, and could provide no input whatsoever.. we knew more about the inner workings of the Porsche hierarchy than they did! Ok.. so lets give them a break, the car we were showing was older than the both of them!! However, in many cases.. this is what you're dealing with.

As you've stated... the records issue, with boxes being lost/found, need sorting etc.. is in fact true, and not urban legend. I have over time developed some contact that was able to validate this as a previous employees of Porsche etc.. in addition to understanding that in the beginning with the CoA program, part of the problem was that the service itself was contracted out.. (yes there is a back story to that) and that the actual preparation of the certificate was done by the service provider with much of the information being omitted or misunderstood between Porsche and said service provider...

By the same token, and from a different perspective.. I can't bash Porsche for there effort on this either.. as back when these cars were produced, they were considered a small manufacturer by the numbers, and they were trying to produce and move units as quickly as possible, given the hand-built nature of their cars at the time. I'm sure the records then were merely just to process the build and/or "special order." Sure, they were aware that they built a great and very desirable product, but never in their wildest dreams did they expect these old cars to become so coveted, and the 2nd and 3rd + owners to become so demanding... this not only relates to the special wishes cars, but all the way down to the 356's! So I can kinda understand some lost records.

I remember, being at a parade one year.. in PA, (Ha! the same year Alois Ruf turned 50 as I attended his birthday party!) and I was standing nearby some members of the Porsche family, as they were discussing a couple of 356 cars on display, the jest of their was "how nicely restored the cars are, I cant believe how much money the Americans spend on them, as they are now better than when produced." Keep in mind, this was well before the run-up in prices that we've seen over the last few years.
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Last edited by onboost; 02-16-2017 at 10:12 AM..
Old 02-16-2017, 09:55 AM
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onboost,
Interesting story on the history of the CoA program. Never had heard that. I do understand the issues with Porsche not really gaining anything by spending a lot of time and money to do the records archive. But, being of German descent myself, it is the "German" thing to do ! LOL! Having done a significant amount of research into the WERKS Zuffhausen factory, it really seems kind of "wild west" back in the day. Seems if you could imagine it and had the cash, Porsche would build it! Actually saw a copy of a modification that looked as if it had been drawn on the back of a bar napkin. Not to mention that the "American" thing to do is mod a car the minute you get the chance. My 996 looks nothing like the day it was delivered! But, I digress.
I would think with the prestige of the marque, and the rising values (especially on the old forced induction cars), Porsche would see the value in providing this information. The Porsche owners I know are all very loyal and tend to own more than one car.
Old 02-16-2017, 10:50 AM
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"As you've stated... the records issue, with boxes being lost/found, need sorting etc.. is in fact true, and not urban legend. I have over time developed some contact that was able to validate this as a previous employees of Porsche etc.. in addition to understanding that in the beginning with the CoA program, part of the problem was that the service itself was contracted out.. (yes there is a back story to that) and that the actual preparation of the certificate was done by the service provider with much of the information being omitted or misunderstood between Porsche and said service provider..."

onboost,
I hear the name "Kardex" from time to time. Is that the service provider you are referring to?
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 02-16-2017, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT2thDOC View Post
Having done a significant amount of research into the WERKS Zuffhausen factory, it really seems kind of "wild west" back in the day. Seems if you could imagine it and had the cash, Porsche would build it!

I would think with the prestige of the marque, and the rising values (especially on the old forced induction cars), Porsche would see the value in providing this information. The Porsche owners I know are all very loyal and tend to own more than one car.
Yes, that was their thing back in the day. If you wanted it, had the ca$h and were willing to wait, they would build it for you! I know of one gent, even into the 90's that ordered a couple of cars through special wishes.. one is a very well know one-cabrio with special color int/ext, hard top etc.. one of his request was that every screw used in the interior should be covered in leather!!! This car has leather in places you wouldn't imagine..

The cars that they really kept track of were their one-off/prototypes and many of the earlier race cars.. that's where their heart was.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WERK I View Post
"As you've stated... the records issue, with boxes being lost/found, need sorting etc.. is in fact true, and not urban legend. I have over time developed some contact that was able to validate this as a previous employees of Porsche etc.. in addition to understanding that in the beginning with the CoA program, part of the problem was that the service itself was contracted out.. (yes there is a back story to that) and that the actual preparation of the certificate was done by the service provider with much of the information being omitted or misunderstood between Porsche and said service provider..."

onboost,
I hear the name "Kardex" from time to time. Is that the service provider you are referring to?
Dave,
I've always understood Kardex to be part of their internal process if you will, with regard to tracking production builds, what was on a particular, where it was destined etc.. as the cars made their way through the assembly line and to holding prior to shipment. I do know that This dates back to 356 production, and that "back in the day," if you wanted info on your car you could then write to Porsche and request a copy of the "Kardex." A number of the 356 guys I've met have had copies.. and it pretty much looked like a copy of a larger index card that had various cells with numbers etc,.. As far as I know this was still the process up into the 90's. Wish I had gotten on the band wagon and request this for some of my cars back then.

I'm not sure if they used this for later 911/930 production or if so, when they stopped.
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:35 PM
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For my understanding, there were only "10" hammerhead flachbau made by werk 1 in the 1982 period. The factory offered the pop up lights starting from 1983. So they are extremely rare & unique.
Old 02-17-2017, 01:52 PM
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Speaking of '82 Flachbau's, I was trolling eBay and found this slantnose the the seller claims is a factory car. Some things visually don't add up. Quite possibly fraudulent claim
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P

Last edited by WERK I; 02-19-2017 at 07:12 AM.. Reason: corrected text
Old 02-18-2017, 02:43 PM
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I had a real 82 for a short time.



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Old 02-18-2017, 06:22 PM
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William,
Thanks for posting the pic of your car. Interesting that Porsche evolved the look of the slantnose over time. The vented front fenders, two strakes instead of three in the rear brake vents and the 82's had no jacking points in the boxed rockers. The jack must have been different for these cars?
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 02-19-2017, 07:11 AM
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https://jeatleyphotography.shootproof.com/gallery/PorscheSlantnose/photo/514495054

Cool shot of my Euro 84 930 Slantnose
Old 02-20-2017, 10:08 AM
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Thread needed a bump...

If anyone is wondering what cams the 330BHP engine uses, here's a pic of the cams with the Porsche Part # stamped on the the noses. SC/Carrera cams with machined extension to drive turbo sump pump.



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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 06-10-2017, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT2thDOC View Post
So, I had told WERK I about this and had decided to wait to see if I got any more info on my 82 Flachbau. Since Porsche is being absolutely ZERO help, here is what I learned.
Some quick background: car was ordered in 6/81, original owner saw the very first Flachbau getting ready to come off the line. This cart ordered the next day. Delivered 3/82
While attending Rennsport V, I ran into several high level folks in the classics division. We (myself and the other 2 owners of this car) have had nothing but difficulties getting any info about build numbers, sequence and frankly anything else out of Porsche, I thought I'd try in person. Showed photos of my car (which was sitting around the corner) to the reps and asked for help. They both smiled and stated, "we know that car". HUH?!? This car or this production model?!? After much back and forth, I asked them straight out, "how many of these were fabricated?". Both answered in unison, "oh, maybe 10". TEN!!! I've always read somewhere between 30 and 40 (depending on the source). I was then told that Porsche FOUND THE OLD RECORDS. Yep, we were always told the records were lost/gone/destroyed. Nope. They found "boxes" of old records from Zuffhausen in an unused basement room and hadn't had the time to sort or archive them yet. The boxes were unsorted with files placed randomly and no sense of date or any order at all. This is NOT urban legend. I personally spoke with these 2 reps. After multiple assurances that they had an older tech who was near retirement and loved going through old records, they would be in contact with more info. Well, as usual, after many emails back and forth, I got ANOTHER COA stating "slant nose body modification". Geez, thanks, I have 3 already. This seems to be Porsches way off telling you to go away. Wanted to get this out into the conversation so other owners of these Special Wishes cars know that the records do exist. Good luck every getting any info!
My "baby" getting ready for Rennsport V.
OMG, i love it
Old 06-11-2017, 10:21 PM
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Finally a slant gets some love! Scored "Best in Show" at Porsche OKC LeMans watch party and Porsche car show!
Old 06-24-2017, 09:16 AM
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