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Hey there Chappy, Yasin the drivability is unreal, it idles like an NA stocker no surging or hunting I know that Drake and Andy spent a lot of time getting the idle right, the last time this car was brought up to me it would not start on the trailer, this time around a friend of mine got it off the trailer for me and it fired up with no issues in 15 degree weather. Drivability is huge for m as this is not a track car only intended to make max power and forsake a proper idle and manners while in town or cruising, the really great part is the part throttle response and tip in, when you step on the loud pedal the car seems in a constant state of readiness to run but at the same time it is happy just cruising. The only apparent short coming is that the car is loud and I have no sound deadening with Wevo transmission and engine mounts I get a little bit of low speed noise in second gear through the open Wevo shifter, I am trying not too sound to much like a p*$$y I am just getting ready for the responses from my wife when she gets in for the first time, uh is that the Matter roll cage that you had to have? well it is in my way, why is it so loud now? where are the back seats?
what I hear wah wah wah as I run through the gears.

Merry Christmas guys, I have already had mine.
Old 12-21-2008, 08:36 AM
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Can help...

If you need any welding done on that bucket of bolts I've got some cat in France than can do a swell job for you...

EPS
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AMG V8 SL55 Mercedes, 993 C2, 86' Carrera 3.6 hot rod, Purple 1998 993 that didn't make the cut, 3 very old 930s, A/Fuel Dragster CH3NO2 (R.I.P.), Blown Alcohol TAD, AA/AA, 360 Maxim wingless, Cummins Turbo Diesel. Amateur Welder, Painter and sculptor sort of. -
Old 12-21-2008, 09:45 AM
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I just Love your brand of humor Eldon
Old 12-21-2008, 09:49 AM
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Thanks

Thank you, thank you very much ladies and gentlemen...
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AMG V8 SL55 Mercedes, 993 C2, 86' Carrera 3.6 hot rod, Purple 1998 993 that didn't make the cut, 3 very old 930s, A/Fuel Dragster CH3NO2 (R.I.P.), Blown Alcohol TAD, AA/AA, 360 Maxim wingless, Cummins Turbo Diesel. Amateur Welder, Painter and sculptor sort of. -
Old 12-21-2008, 10:22 AM
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Lincoln, i'm made up for you, i know what 's like waiting rediculous amounts of time for your car to get done, mine has spent over three of the last 5 and a half years in workshops, most of it wasted, it can drive you mad!! Hope you enjoy it long into the future!

I'm curious about your numbers though, surely you mean 568 flywheel BHP? It simply isn't possible to get 568 rear wheel BHP from that turbo at 1.0bar, that would equate to something in the 650+ flywheel HP range. I've seen a GT4088R give a true (engine dyno) 600 flywheel BHP at 1.2bar on a similar build, motec, 3.4ltr, all the same stuff basically and tuned by F1 engineers, and using every trick in the book.

The top end of of the GT4088R is 700bhp http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/GT40/GT4088R.htm
The top end of your turbo even from your supplier is 550bhp http://www.limitengineering.com/gt-37-full.jpg

I'm not for one second knocking your car or your build, but 650+ FWBHP from 1.0bar simply isn't possible no matter what has been done, and using that turbo. I know engine tuners love to big up their numbers, but you need to get it on another set of rollers and get a second opinion. I've been told that i had 100bhp more than i actually had on my last engine, i took it to three other separate dyno's to get a wide as possible range of opinion, the three independant ones were within 30bhp of each other, the one where I got the work done always posted 100bhp more, go figure
Old 12-21-2008, 04:31 PM
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Congratulations Schnele!
Old 12-21-2008, 04:40 PM
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I love ruf wheels.

I like those door panels, really cool.
Old 12-21-2008, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SCHNELE View Post
I just Love your brand of humor Eldon
Indeed! That was awesome EP
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Old 12-21-2008, 05:38 PM
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OFF THE BOOST PIPE NOW...
 
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Quote:
Thank you, thank you very much ladies and gentlemen. I'll be here all week.
Fixed it for you.

Great car! David does some good work. I always get my car dynoed there as needed on the way to VIR.

Last edited by A930Rocket; 12-27-2008 at 03:46 PM..
Old 12-21-2008, 07:12 PM
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Hey Jon, I really am pleased with the car's performance and I will use 300rwhp as the number for my car, I will take it! I appreciate your questions and I will point out that this is a discussion board so I am not offended. My dad was an engineer and he always said "trust but verify," I will say that my car prior to the last tear down using an HF2 turbo made 429RWHP on a mustang dyno but made 13RWHP less on the Dynapack. I can assure I will do a dyno day as soon as possible to verify the numbers for the sake of discussion. I can also tell you that the car was tuned by an independent third party, Motec USA East they have no interest in overstating the numbers but they are risking a huge blow to their reputation if that is the case. While you point to some interesting facts I can only ask some pointed questions tomorrow and respond to you then. By the way I did mean RWHP and as a point of reference I will point you to Professor Ollie's thread over on Rennlist.
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/911-turbo-930-forum/343048-another-rebuild-efi-conversion.html

PS there were a gaggle of cars there in various states of tune some made 5xx some made 6xx and at least 1 made a minimum of 7xxrwhp, why not call 6xx, 7xx and 8xx respectively.

Last edited by SCHNELE; 12-22-2008 at 06:50 AM..
Old 12-21-2008, 08:41 PM
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Schnelle,
Wow that is an incredible car, i had the opportunity to see it in person a couple of times in the past month over at speedwerks! Andy was bragging about your car!! I am sooo jealous of the interior!! all the suede and RUF parts!! Absolutely gorgeous and then some! I had the opportunity to see your motor still sitting out of it too! and it was a work of art in itself! I wish i could have caught up with you before you went back to michigan i would have loved to see that thing running!! Congradulations on the gorgeous build! It is truly a stunning 930!!!!
Old 12-22-2008, 06:14 AM
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Lincoln, congratulations.
We'll have to meet up at Stuart Tool (also known as the Billionaire Boys Club) in the spring so you can take me for a ride. Just promise that you won't scare me too much, though
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Old 12-22-2008, 08:48 AM
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Stuart Tool on Saturdays is a veritable Billionaire Boys Club but I will likely have a beer and brat event when the weather breaks.
Old 12-22-2008, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JBL930 View Post
.....The top end of your turbo even from your supplier is 550bhp http://www.limitengineering.com/gt-37-full.jpg.....
Jon, the info on limit engineering site is info from Garrett, supposedly for baseline reference. They are not numbers for their custom turbos (I have verified this by telephone). As with other custom turbo suppliers, it is next to impossible to get data for their custom turbos.
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Old 12-22-2008, 10:00 AM
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Schnele,
Congrats. Looks great!

I was surprised to see FR5DTC plugs used for the rebuild. Did the tuners choose the plug or the wrench? Did they suggest you use something different if you choose to track the beast?

Thanks,
Doug
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Old 12-22-2008, 10:41 AM
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The HP looks about right to me when compared to what my engine's putting out.

What's your displacement?
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Old 12-22-2008, 01:24 PM
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Thanks Professor Ollie, I actually recall having that discussion with Dave at SpeedWerks before but it has been some ago. Come this spring I will get a dyno video of the car.

Doug I am not sure I understand the nature of your question about the plug, it is a relatively cold plug if that is what you are after.

David (125Shifter) My Displacement is roughly 3.55 Liters
Old 12-22-2008, 01:38 PM
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I didn't realise it was a custom turbo other than the ceramic coating, like i said guys i'm not trying to take anything away from what seams to be an incredible car, it just didn't add up that a similar engine running 1.2bar, and with a much larger turbo was only able to achieve 600 flywheel BHP, and this one running 1.0bar was able to achieve IRO 650. If the turbo is something else internally than a GT37R then who knows.
Like i said the engine i'm talking about was totally top notch and tuned by JUDD who used to do F1 engines and still build Le Mans series stuff, so not an inferior outfit by any stretch of the imagination, here's a LINK also a wiki page HERE
You have to apreciate that when an outfit like this tunes an engine it's done right, and when they get a certain power level using a certain size turbo it basically becomes a bench mark. Seeing way bigger figures coming from a lot less boost with a much smaller turbo screams BS. If the turbo is something else then i suppose anything is possible, it may have a GT42 compressor side or something?

Lincoln, your car is awesome, and you've waited forever to get it back, drive the bloody wheels off it, keep safe


Ollie, did you do some 60-130mph runs in yours, if so what kind of time were you seeing? Lincoln, would be great to know what time yours does this too, it's a fantastic bench mark!

Last edited by JBL930; 12-22-2008 at 02:58 PM..
Old 12-22-2008, 02:56 PM
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Schnele,
My wrench put Bosch F2CS in mine, which are much colder. Too cold in my opinion. I am curious whether the guys who tuned your car decided on the FR5DTC or the guys who rebuilt it. Any idea how they came to the decision to use the FR5DTC?
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:35 PM
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Jonathan,

I have followed the 60-130mph runs on RL 993TT forum ( including yours ) with great interest and will do that myself too one day. The reason it will have to be at some undetermined date in the future is because I had intended to move to Finland and had shippped my car along with a container full of goods ahead of me. Thanks to the financial crisis my planned job transplant did not work out (yet) so I am a bit in a limbo right now. At least the car is safely in my garage in my old hometown.

But I understand your point and have learnt enough about dyno vs. real life performance from that thread, other discussions about this issue, and personal communication with Jean that I know that the 60-130 test will give a more reliable idea of the true output of the car.
And I am also aware that the real life number derived from the actual performance will probably be lower than the short dyno pull number.

But since we are all measuring the output of our cars using dynos I also think that dyno runs provide good relative information about them.

Regarding the Limit Engineering custom turbos, yes, they are definitely a lot different from the stock Garrett turbos.
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Old 12-22-2008, 05:05 PM
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