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Thoughts on Porsche today and interesting conversation with a German

I know this prolly belong in 'OT' but since this is the coolest forum on the board, thought i would post here first. Was sitting on the beach between kitesurfing sessions in the DR this past week, reading the lastest issue of Christophorus which had come in the mail the day before i left. I was also reading the parts of Paul Frere's book 'Racing Porsches of the 70's' that i had skipped in the past, esp as relates to development of the 917/10 and Turbo-Carrera (hint-starting future project). Anyway, here is the magazine that represents Porsche, and there was litterally NOTHING in it that i could relate too. I had just finished reading in Frere's book about all of the simultaneous developement of some of the greatest sports cars ever created by a dedicated band of enthusiasts at all levels, and then i look at modern Porsche trying to sell me the new 'Panabomination' between touting how the Cayman has 'new tires' for 2009(!!! wow) or how the Cayenne is featured in the latest dumb-a$$ hollywood flick! (i kid u not... go read it!!) This company that calls themselves Porsche has two types of racing cars now and they act like it's the main focus of the company! Layer after layer of BS and glossy marketing schtick was all that i saw in that mag (fittingly, my last as i let my subscription lapse)... between designing Porsche cell-phones, coffee cups, clothing, toys etc, were is the substance or support for the grassroots enthusiast who made the company?

Anyhow, there was a guy from Germany out on the water kiting with me, who as it turns out, owned an early S and had owned a 930. We of course started talking about the state of affairs of Porsche when he saw what i was reading, and he said that a lot enthusiasts in Germany are becoming more and more disaffected with modern Porsche, as it has turned from running a sports car company, and dropped support for its heritage and older models, or producing lightweight entry-level cars, to just another corporation, intent on keeping stockholders happy with M+A like with Volkswagen, without the soul or sense of purpose (making sports cars!!) it had in the past. Instead of joining Porsche, guys like Jan Fatthauer or Ruf, (whose ideas and creativity about building fast, avant guard Porsches in the spirit of Singer and Metzger would be at odds at 'modern' Porsche) start their own company. Was an interesting conversation. Just wanted to let you u guys know that we are not alone in our thinking on this side of the Atlantic.

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Old 01-19-2009, 07:10 AM
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Yeah Porsche marketing...

I honestly think they will need to change a few things for the better due to the recession.

Quite frankly, I believe the Panamera will bomb after a typical new model sales burst. I give it two years to dissappoint and then another three years of sheer stubborness before Porsche drops the whole project.

And Cayennes are selling for the same price as Kia Sedona minivans on the used market (20 grand).

I don't believe in a lot of things in the world right now but I honestly have a feeling that it may be the best thing to give Porsche a big slap in the face.

They are going to find the soccer daddie market to be more fickle than they counted on, and they will find that people who drive entry level Porsche minivans don't upsell to GT3 RS's as often as marketing first believed.
Old 01-19-2009, 10:45 AM
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I agree with DDDD about the whole soccer daddy thing- But from a marketing standpoint, there would have been ample room for this 2-3 years ago. Not any more though.
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Old 01-19-2009, 11:16 AM
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I'd bet he's also tell you PORSCHE can be pronounced 2 ways - by all Germans.
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Old 01-19-2009, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDDD View Post
They are going to find the soccer daddie market to be more fickle than they counted on...
"soccer daddie"...that's brillant!

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Old 01-19-2009, 12:46 PM
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While on hold for the parts dept the rolling ad soundtrack actually said:
"When you think of performance, think Porsh."
Then parts picked up, I asked if they had an oil filter in stock. I told them the 965 takes a different filter than the 964, so he asked for my VIN#.
"Sorry, don't have that on me, but it's a '92 C2 Turbo, and the filter is the same as for a 944 or 968."
"I can't find your oil filter without a VIN"
So I pulled up my PET and gave the Porsche Parts Manager a part number.
"Nope, don't stock that one."

FAIL.

I'd like to drop off the car and ask the service writer to check the coolant level.
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Last edited by AFM744; 01-19-2009 at 06:37 PM..
Old 01-19-2009, 06:34 PM
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Porsh is but one correct way to pronounce the werd.
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Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 01-19-2009, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFM744 View Post
While on hold for the parts dept the rolling ad soundtrack actually said:
"When you think of performance, think Porsh."
Then parts picked up, I asked if they had an oil filter in stock. I told them the 965 takes a different filter than the 964, so he asked for my VIN#.
"Sorry, don't have that on me, but it's a '92 C2 Turbo, and the filter is the same as for a 944 or 968."
"I can't find your oil filter without a VIN"
So I pulled up my PET and gave the Porsche Parts Manager a part number.
"Nope, don't stock that one."
FAIL.
I'd like to drop off the car and ask the service writer to check the coolant level.
How about the fact that the new paper insert oil filter costs as much as the air-cooled truck canister units-
...I'm sure production costs of each are close enough to justify a similar price.... what a bunch of bull$hit
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Old 01-19-2009, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
How about the fact that the new paper insert oil filter costs as much as the air-cooled truck canister units-
...I'm sure production costs of each are close enough to justify a similar price.... what a bunch of bull$hit
Sad to say, but Porsche has sold it's soul for the Benjamins.

None of like to acknowledge it, but like watching Mike Tyson in the late 90's vs the 80's, it doesnt even faintly resemble the company that built our Turbos. It might as well be Audi or Nissan or something. Porsche WAS racing and racing WAS Porsche. I dont buy that crap about racing being too expensive... Porsche was BUILT on the premise of racing. Racing is it's 'raison d'etre'. Porsche used to homolgate for racing first, then think about how they would sell those cars to the public second... but that is how all the 'great ones' came to be... 911RS, 930 and others. Should i really care that there is a company called Porsche that exists today if it doesnt produce stuff i want to buy? Does it even deserve to exist if it's product is increasingly alienating the hardcore enthusiast? Heck, it doesnt even want to produce the parts to keep the cars going that built it's reputation!

I guess reading Frere's book in comparison to all the complete gay-a$$ BS in Christophorus, really brought home how sad the current state of affairs is. Reading about how all the blood, sweat, and passion went into building the 917/10/30/and 935's of the 70's and 80's, even when Ferry and co. couldn't afford it, just to win races. Where is the passion or soul of the company today? The fact that the company cared more about racing than making huge profits endears that era to me even more. Now, it's just about the $$$, nothing more, nothing less. Hell, if it couldnt make a profit from racing today, i guarantee u it wouldnt even be doing that.

OK, i feel better now.
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Old 01-19-2009, 09:22 PM
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This relates to the thead about "Essence" in the 911 forum...Porsche has lost it, but that's the one great thing about history and memories, we can keep those forever.

If Porsche wants to screw itself by forgetting how it got to where it was, that's fine by me - there will always be skilled machine guys that can remake the factory stuff - there will always be body guys that "get it" like Zuffenhaus that can refabricate the unique and inspired shapes that get us all hot and bothered. There will always be guys with the money for the new stuff but a taste for the old, that will resurect the true history and glorious past and showcase what was done so long ago that would give the current competition a run for its money.

Its not just the parts and chassis', its the spirit that no one can kill nor take away that will one day come out of hiding and choke slam Porsche's board of directors and strap them in the side seat next to Mark Donohue for a few 917/30 laps with the boost turned up, then onto their lession with Al Holbert in the 944 GTR Turbo (750 bhp 4 cylinder) to show what an "entry level" car can achieve for a finishing ride with Paul Newman in the 935 around LeMans, then they will see God and understand the error of their ways.

These pics show a time when Porsche raced EVERYTHING it made - no wonder Nissan is now a competitor.

Give me my anti-cupholder, non air conditioned, anti-technology assisted, no airbaged, toggle switched, no rear seat havin' , 6 point harnessed, flared fendered, uncomfortable and smelly, ear drum splitting, flame shooting and ground shaking 930...take the bling bling faux aluminum 997, Cockster, the Gaymen, the Fagyanne and Panapukester and blow it out ur ass.

We are now that small group of motivated individuals, doing the best we can with what we have, making improvements when neccessary. The heritage and history fall to us lowly mortals, to pass on and inspire the up and coming generations, to instill in them what is true and good - what the spirit of Motorsport is all about. I refuse to ackowledge the day when someone mentions the name Norbert Singer and everyone has a clueless look. The candle has been passed, it is up to us to carry it.













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Last edited by Reaper930; 01-19-2009 at 11:27 PM..
Old 01-19-2009, 11:22 PM
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Rant of the day!

Panapukester, I hadnt heard that one yet ;-)
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper930 View Post
This relates to the thead about "Essence" in the 911 forum...Porsche has lost it, but that's the one great thing about history and memories, we can keep those forever.

If Porsche wants to screw itself by forgetting how it got to where it was, that's fine by me - there will always be skilled machine guys that can remake the factory stuff - there will always be body guys that "get it" like Zuffenhaus that can refabricate the unique and inspired shapes that get us all hot and bothered. There will always be guys with the money for the new stuff but a taste for the old, that will resurect the true history and glorious past and showcase what was done so long ago that would give the current competition a run for its money.

Its not just the parts and chassis', its the spirit that no one can kill nor take away that will one day come out of hiding and choke slam Porsche's board of directors and strap them in the side seat next to Mark Donohue for a few 917/30 laps with the boost turned up, then onto their lession with Al Holbert in the 944 GTR Turbo (750 bhp 4 cylinder) to show what an "entry level" car can achieve for a finishing ride with Paul Newman in the 935 around LeMans, then they will see God and understand the error of their ways.

These pics show a time when Porsche raced EVERYTHING it made - no wonder Nissan is now a competitor.

Give me my anti-cupholder, non air conditioned, anti-technology assisted, no airbaged, toggle switched, no rear seat havin' , 6 point harnessed, flared fendered, uncomfortable and smelly, ear drum splitting, flame shooting and ground shaking 930...take the bling bling faux aluminum 997, Cockster, the Gaymen, the Fagyanne and Panapukester and blow it out ur ass.

We are now that small group of motivated individuals, doing the best we can with what we have, making improvements when neccessary. The heritage and history fall to us lowly mortals, to pass on and inspire the up and coming generations, to instill in them what is true and good - what the spirit of Motorsport is all about. I refuse to ackowledge the day when someone mentions the name Norbert Singer and everyone has a clueless look. The candle has been passed, it is up to us to carry it.













F@#$'ay, well said Gabe. GREAT pix too bro.. what i'm talking about. Nothing pi$$es me off more than BS over substance, esp. these days, when u look around yourself and it is all show and no go from people to companies, even Porsche. This board is about hardcore speed, and making faster, nastier, hairier cars, just like the old days. Until Porsche starts doing this again ( i soo much enjoyed those pu$$ies at Porsche today getting themselves worked up when the GT-R beat out the GT2 on the 'Ring... even if it was with a tweaked version. It's what those smug latte-sipping bean counting dweebs need to wake their assess up, but i doubt anything will do that except tanking model lines) When i get in my 80's rides (esp the Turbo) I KNOW i am part of something that was special.
When i finally look at a model like the Cayman, and can get LSD (not even an option now!!!Pretty much says it all) or the Turbo as an option, or competition goodies, or can even turn on Moto Europa and see them on the track, only then i will know that i can come home again. Until then, i'm here.
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:05 AM
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Why do i have to ask, why are companies with budgets less than 1/100th of Porsche's building these hardcore 'Porsches' instead of Porsche? ?


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Old 01-20-2009, 06:24 AM
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[QUOTE=Reaper930;4429253]

Give me my anti-cupholder, non air conditioned, anti-technology assisted, no airbaged, toggle switched, no rear seat havin' , 6 point harnessed, flared fendered, uncomfortable and smelly, ear drum splitting, flame shooting and ground shaking 930...take the bling bling faux aluminum 997, Cockster, the Gaymen, the Fagyanne and Panapukester and blow it out ur ass.

We are now that small group of motivated individuals, doing the best we can with what we have, making improvements when neccessary. The heritage and history fall to us lowly mortals, to pass on and inspire the up and coming generations, to instill in them what is true and good - what the spirit of Motorsport is all about. I refuse to ackowledge the day when someone mentions the name Norbert Singer and everyone has a clueless look. The candle has been passed, it is up to us to carry it.

Well put!
I agree with you 100% That's the way it should be done, you have my vote.
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juicersr View Post
Sad to say, but Porsche has sold it's soul for the Benjamins.

None of like to acknowledge it, but like watching Mike Tyson in the late 90's vs the 80's, it doesnt even faintly resemble the company that built our Turbos. It might as well be Audi or Nissan or something. Porsche WAS racing and racing WAS Porsche. I dont buy that crap about racing being too expensive... Porsche was BUILT on the premise of racing. Racing is it's 'raison d'etre'. Porsche used to homolgate for racing first, then think about how they would sell those cars to the public second... but that is how all the 'great ones' came to be... 911RS, 930 and others. Should i really care that there is a company called Porsche that exists today if it doesnt produce stuff i want to buy? Does it even deserve to exist if it's product is increasingly alienating the hardcore enthusiast? Heck, it doesnt even want to produce the parts to keep the cars going that built it's reputation!

I guess reading Frere's book in comparison to all the complete gay-a$$ BS in Christophorus, really brought home how sad the current state of affairs is. Reading about how all the blood, sweat, and passion went into building the 917/10/30/and 935's of the 70's and 80's, even when Ferry and co. couldn't afford it, just to win races. Where is the passion or soul of the company today? The fact that the company cared more about racing than making huge profits endears that era to me even more. Now, it's just about the $$$, nothing more, nothing less. Hell, if it couldnt make a profit from racing today, i guarantee u it wouldnt even be doing that.

OK, i feel better now.
If I could take just one quote from all of cyberspace to put in front of Porsche marketing, it would be this.

And if I could use one quote from all of cyberspace as a mission statement for Porsche owners, it would be Gabe's.
Old 01-20-2009, 08:18 AM
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Does anyone from management from Porsche read this forum?

Weideking is the reason for most of the changes at Porsche that has made it more corporation minded like GM except in their case it is profitable.
Now that Porsche has financial health and huge profits......lets see it return to backing up its reputation in building real fast world beating sports cars. The Cayman is a great platform if Porsche would only build it with a bigger engine to kick Ferraris ass in GT2 racing.
How about not worrying about pissing off Audi and building a LM1 class car to kick their ass?
How about building a better service dealership that actual caters to the customers like in the old days?

How about hiring me to a mangement position over there and I will straighten things out. I could use a job right now.
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:09 PM
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It seems that Porsche now is suffering the "Harley-Davidson Syndrome". Years ago, Harley was a motorcycle manufacturer. Now that's merely an incidental part of their business, which is slathering their logo and name all over everything they can lay their hands on. Hello Kitty or Kiss aren't even as big of merchandising whores as H-D, and THAT'S saying something. Harley makes more money annually from the licensing of their name and logo on products than they do from building and selling motorcycles!

Witness the glut of "Porsche" merch out on the market now, and you see shades of that.

In the same vein, years ago, a Harley executive said, "We don't sell motorcycles, we're selling a lifestyle". Think about it for a minute and the same thing is going on with Porsche. Instead of working on building a world-class, world-beating product, they are profiting from the name and the image. A Porsche executive could have said the exact same thing now.

I never, EVER thought I would compare Harley-Davidson with Porsche. ::shudder:: But these days, their management styles are nearly identical.
Old 01-20-2009, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmeister View Post
Does anyone from management from Porsche read this forum?

Weideking is the reason for most of the changes at Porsche that has made it more corporation minded like GM except in their case it is profitable.
Now that Porsche has financial health and huge profits......lets see it return to backing up its reputation in building real fast world beating sports cars. The Cayman is a great platform if Porsche would only build it with a bigger engine to kick Ferraris ass in GT2 racing.
How about not worrying about pissing off Audi and building a LM1 class car to kick their ass?
How about building a better service dealership that actual caters to the customers like in the old days?

How about hiring me to a mangement position over there and I will straighten things out. I could use a job right now.
Fu@# Weideking... that smarmy little bean-counter saved Porche for what?? So it could sell minivans and sedans??? He almost killed the one righteous move Porsche has made in the last several years, the Carrera GT. And what does he/Porsche do when it returns to 'profitablity'? Start working all out on how to beat Audi (Do you think Norbert Singer, Piech or Ferry would have let that one stand)? Start developing the Cayman into the great racing platform it could be? Start offering a total range of performance options on it's lower model ranges. No, it acquires VW! There are so many thing wrong with the company, where do u begin?

Groovie, man u are so right. I would tell u about my sad but true story of test driving the Cayman S (i know, i know, it was a temporary moment of weakness, but i was going to give the car the benefit of the doubt) two year ago, but suffice to say that when the sales guys couldnt convince me of it's 'great' performance' in relation to my Z or SC, they tried to seal the deal by offering to throw in a 'Genuine Porsche Jacket'! I kid u not! I walked away disgusted. But that interaction was symbolic of where things are today.
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juicersr View Post
but suffice to say that when the sales guys couldnt convince me of it's 'great' performance' in relation to my Z or SC, they tried to seal the deal by offering to throw in a 'Genuine Porsche Jacket! I kid u not! I walked away disgusted. But that interaction was symbolic of where things are today.
Dude! You turned down the JACKET!!?? OMG
The truth is that Porsche is not targeting people like us anymore. Porsche's new target market (love it or hate, but is true) is both men and WOMEN because they are a growing and untapped resource of sales. The cars show that they have been taking on a more feminine approach to things. Unfortunately Porsche thinks that by totaly cutting the nuts off of their cars will bring more women consumers (and in many cases they are right). But we all still love our
930's

Quote my Mother (997 C4S owner) when taking her for a ride in my 930 after it put down 496 to the wheels. "AHHHH..... Why doesn't my 997 do that?"
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:35 PM
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Good luck trying to start a similar conversation on Rennlist - you'll be ignored, impuned, and called everything from "luddite" to "insecure" to "homophobic." I'm afraid the current-day Porsche community is about as hard core as the girl scouts.

Anyway, I agree with everything stated above. I just bought my dream car, a '91 C2 Turbo, and will NEVER sell it. If I have to learn to fabricate parts myself to keep this car on the road 5, 10, or 20 years from now, I'll do it.

The world around us is becoming a politically correct nightmare ruled by moral equivalence and the worship of style over substance. But that just means, as said before, that we have an obligation to preserve and protect those things which are REAL. Starting with important things like the Constitution - and right on down to our favorite toys (930s!)

Old 01-20-2009, 03:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
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