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Ya, but still probably a step above CIS and I love CIS.

Old 01-11-2010, 06:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #281 (permalink)
Forced Induction Junkie
 
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True, but it's a proprietary system, makes it worse than the factory. If you want to mod the engine, pack it up and ship it to Protomotive, 'cause no one else is gonna touch it or could touch it.
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 01-11-2010, 08:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #282 (permalink)
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Some pics from Nov 2009

Hi Guys,

I was just browsing through some pictures on my PC here at work, and found some from when we started the project in November. Thought that it could be nice to post some of them here! Talked to Micke yesterday and he's done rebuilding my transmission soon. Looking forward picking it up at his shop and also to check out how my engine is doing

I'll stay in touch!

BTW, for those who wonder, I'm the dude in the black sweater







Old 01-21-2010, 01:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #283 (permalink)
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Cool. That's a neat engine lift.

Let me guess, the Ford is from high school/university days, and the Mercedes is from your dad?

Hey, i would love to see some pix from Micke's shop when u go to check on the status of your motor!
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:21 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #284 (permalink)
Tobias A
 
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Hehe good guess Juicersr, but not quite The garage belongs to my friend. The Mercedes 200 -1967 is a car that we bought together for 150 bucks It's a project that hopefully will be done this year. The Merc is for summer cruising going for a picknick sort of car... The Ford is a Granada from 1977. My friends Grandpa had that car for many many years. Guess he put on like 300.000 miles on it! The original 2.8 liter V6 is swapped against a Ford V8 305cu in with loads of Torque

The engine lift is actually an old lift from a Warehouse used for stacking new TV's etc.

I will check with Micke if it's OK with him to post some pics of his shop here. Stay tuned!

Best Regards

Tobias
Old 01-21-2010, 05:45 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #285 (permalink)
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Hej Tobias

While you are waiting you can do like we are doing..

YouTube - The second steam rocket run


Sorry for misguide the tread, I will soon come back with CIS turbo tricks.

DPhans
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #286 (permalink)
 
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That's the funniest thing i've seen in a long time!! Absolutely awesome, i need a go on that
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87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan

Last edited by JBL930; 01-22-2010 at 10:20 AM..
Old 01-22-2010, 08:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #287 (permalink)
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OK that was COOL
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"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 01-22-2010, 10:17 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #288 (permalink)
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Hehe, DPHans. I sent that vid to Micke this weekend. Sooo cool! Are you involved there?

/Toby
Old 01-22-2010, 11:17 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #289 (permalink)
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Cis power

Help Haiti and me, I have problem to find my garage, to much snow and to cold
my new project is on "ice"
Regarding tips and tricks.
Why not water injection? Pump and a electric injector + adjustable pressure valve.
gain at least 40 HP. (10% mix) by 1.0 bar
I have information regarding the correct factory fuel head,
Also parts number on the fuel head, Standard fuel head parts number starts with 0 (Zero) Rest is for competition use
Injectors Bosch racing "Gold" 530-580ml/min ( No parts number). Hard to find.
Ps. Remember that we (Sweden) use a lot of Ethanol in our gasoline. (7% 98 octane ) that is why we easily get top HP.

CIS forever.
DPHANS



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Old 01-23-2010, 07:46 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #290 (permalink)
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Any info you have on injector flow rates is well appreciated.

Very neat to learn about the Gold injectors.

The picture of an 8 cylinder head on a 930 metering assembly is fun.

I is my understanding that the only 8 cylinder FD that can equal a 930 unit per cylinder is from a Bentley / Rolls Royce.

I would have to assume that a large MBZ or 928 FD might using 8 cylinders out flow a 930 with 6 but not sure.

I have a frend that works with Bosch and there CIS people all the time. I will look into the Gold Injectors and see what I can find and how we can get a bunch of them if needed.

If anyone can get there part number is would help.

Maybe this is how DP and others have been able to go through the 400hp ceiling way before the HF Fuel Dist.
Old 01-23-2010, 08:45 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #291 (permalink)
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Hans, thanks for the vid. Amazing what u can think up while struck with 'cabin fever' during the winter! After seeing the 'Its Fun' 930 build, i thought you Swedes were nutters, now i know it for sure.

What fuel head and metering unit are shown in the pix? Will a Mercedes or 928 simply heald simply bolt onto a stock 2.7 or 3.0 unit?

Also, where on the manifold would you add the H20 injectors?
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com

Last edited by juicersr; 01-23-2010 at 09:31 AM..
Old 01-23-2010, 09:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #292 (permalink)
 
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Injector flow capacity isn't the issue w/ making HP on our cars, and ethanol making huge additional gains, not factual. Sorry.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 01-23-2010, 09:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #293 (permalink)
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I did not read through the entire thread but I have to ask why even mess with the CIS? Sure it worked well in my old audi & VW but that was when there were not many other options.

After playing with EFI I would not waste my time with anything else. The tune ability is unmatched by CIS. One of the biggest improvements often overlooked is the quality of the spray pattern. The finer fuel particles have a greater resistance to detonation. Even on my 96 993tt I noticed a huge difference when upgrading the stock injectors (25k miles and cleaned) to the latest seimens deka injectors.

You can assemble a nice EFI system on a budget by sourcing used parts. Tuner like protomotive have the conversion down pat.
Old 01-23-2010, 10:01 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #294 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K24madness View Post
I did not read through the entire thread but I have to ask why even mess with the CIS? Sure it worked well in my old audi & VW but that was when there were not many other options.

After playing with EFI I would not waste my time with anything else. The tune ability is unmatched by CIS. One of the biggest improvements often overlooked is the quality of the spray pattern. The finer fuel particles have a greater resistance to detonation. Even on my 96 993tt I noticed a huge difference when upgrading the stock injectors (25k miles and cleaned) to the latest seimens deka injectors.

You can assemble a nice EFI system on a budget by sourcing used parts. Tuner like protomotive have the conversion down pat.


Sorry, we all know this. Myself and many others here run EFI.

However, a lot of folk here that like their CIS for various reasons, and it is a valid injection system that can offer plenty of power for these cars (just ask Craig)

Like a lot of things you will find on this and other threads on the board, exploring and understanding the limits of the factory engineering, esp CIS, is both an engineering and intellectual excercise. The fact that Micke Svens, Hans and others are pushing it way past previously accepted limits, we all find quite fascinating.

If you go back and read the thread from the beginning, u will understand this.
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 01-23-2010, 10:15 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #295 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juicersr View Post


Hans, thanks for the vid. Amazing what u can think up while struck with 'cabin fever' during the winter! After seeing the 'Its Fun' 930 build, i thought you Swedes were nutters, now i know it for sure.

What fuel head and metering unit are shown in the pix? Will a Mercedes or 928 simply heald simply bolt onto a stock 2.7 or 3.0 unit?
Yes with modification, Use the CS manifold and make a new plenum chamber.

Also, where on the manifold would you add the H20 injectors?
The H2O injector will probebly go to my plenum chamber. if I cant find any place. I will try to mount it to the intake of the turbo.

Hi J.

Well we Nordic guys are not so stupid. normaly we dont crome to make it looks that we have the power.
1. the fuelhead is the same I am using, its from a Volvo, normaly its a 928/MBz fuelhead. I think its good for 425-450 hp. and if you send it to Trend Motorsport they can modify it to 550-600hp. When the snow dissapear I will visit some junkyards just to find a fuelhead for my 3,0 engine.
The 800hp CIS engine use 6 H2O injectors?. (1985) Steet record holder. on the flying kilometer (1000m) in Sweden 206 mph. (DP935) after 12 years the record was gone to a 8.0l race Pantera with turbo. (still the record holder) It sound easy to beat, but its not.
J -when vist Sweden I will take you to an event calld "Streetcars" Its hold on a race track. Most turbocars that is street legal, will visit this event. No one have less then 600Hp. Its a combine event with dragrace and a track race. so most cars is doing both drag and track race (with same car) and some guys like Cyclone -Robban take his car over to US and make a record run! and then go home.
Follow Jonus and cars round him
YouTube - Jonus Racing Audi S2 2.2 20v turbo 1288 bhp at racing track.flv

There isnīt any part number on the "gold" injectors.
I add a picture on a plenum.
and also a pic on "its Fun engine.

Thanks DPHANS



[img]http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads16/Qvarnis+911+b11264321105.jpg

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Old 01-23-2010, 11:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #296 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPHANS View Post
...............................edited to save space..................
There isnīt any part number on the "gold" injectors.
I add a picture on a plenum.
and also a pic on "its Fun engine.

Thanks DPHANS
DPHANS,
Thanks for sharing those wild photos. Regarding the mercedes "gold" injectors, I found this bit of information on the web.

A poster on another web site stated;
"Fuel System Upgrades
In an attempt to correct my lean condition I started by installing a fat hoss 911 turbo fuel pump (the Bosch 984 motor sport pump) which is capable of fueling up to 450 hp in a turbo application. The best part about it is that it was cheaper than the stock pump and just bolts right in. I then cranked system pressure up to 90 psi and still had a lean condition above 5500 rpm. My next step was to buy the fabled Mercedes Benz "gold" injectors (part number 0 437 502 047) . They are the same size as the 2.0L m10 injectors, which is exactly 12mm longer than the stock 1.8L injector."

Good luck,
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 01-24-2010, 05:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #297 (permalink)
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930/965 injectors have a thread and are screwed into the block. Injectors for n/a applications are held in by the o-ring. The picture that's posted shows that there is no thread for holding the injector into a 930 block.

In order to use the M-B injectors someone will need to fab a method to hold the injectors into the manifold blocks; otherwise they will pop out when the boost comes on.
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Old 01-24-2010, 05:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #298 (permalink)
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Then the 94 3.6 injectors might hold the most promise for a screw ins.

Thierry (sp) noted someone put them a 3.3 and it went pretty rich.

I also saw a note that not all screw in CIS injectors have the same thread.

Can we take a CIS injector apart and ream the orifice?
Old 01-24-2010, 11:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #299 (permalink)
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Great input DPHANS.

Looks like someone needs to flow test these gold injectors!

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Old 01-24-2010, 11:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #300 (permalink)
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