Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Twins are more fun!
 
JMA-RUF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 639
Question Upgrading K16's to GT1 spec K16/24 Hybrids

FYI, I was just quoted $1250 (by AudSpeed) to rebuild/upgrade a pair of 993TT K16's to K16/24 GT1 Hybrids. Apparently the mod allows the pair to flow up around 525-550HP.

Do you guys think it's worth considering?

Certainly cheaper than buying two new GT28R's / RS's and modifying my OEM 993TT heat exchangers to suit

I have also heard of Porsche tuners modifying the K16's with Mitsubishi 16G compressors for a bit more top end than the K24 compressors.
__________________
James
Carrera TT

(3.3, Protomotive MAP ECU, EFI, GT2 EVO CAMs, Twin Plugged, Twin Turbo's)
Old 02-13-2009, 05:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
BoxxerSix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ballston Spa, NY
Posts: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMA-RUF View Post
FYI, I was just quoted $1250 (by AudSpeed) to rebuild/upgrade a pair of 993TT K16's to K16/24 GT1 Hybrids. Apparently the mod allows the pair to flow up around 525-550HP.

Do you guys think it's worth considering?

Certainly cheaper than buying two new GT28R's / RS's and modifying my OEM 993TT heat exchangers to suit

I have also heard of Porsche tuners modifying the K16's with Mitsubishi 16G compressors for a bit more top end than the K24 compressors.
All things considered, it's money well spent in my opinion. That's actually a cheap price for the work too. I'd typically charge about $1400 to do a pair of them myself here.

The K16/B16G wheel mod is what you are referring to below. I have not personally done this myself, but I hear it involves using a "big 16G" compressor wheel and the appropriate bore and diffusor machining required to get a housing on. At that rate I think I'd rather just try to machine a KKK turbine housing to accept the Evo 8/9 larger 16g cartridge and compressor housing. We've pulled almost 360AWHP out of a stock 2004 Evo 8 16G turbocharger at 27lbs of boost. My 4" inlet antisurge housing option I came close to 380. Done on a MD AWD 1100 chassis dynometer. Two of those on a 993 setup would make some GOOOODD power and probably still be very reasonable in drivability.
__________________
Adam Hennessy
Old 02-13-2009, 09:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
930gt-40r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMA-RUF View Post
Certainly cheaper than buying two new GT28R's / RS's and modifying my OEM 993TT heat exchangers to suit
And when your done modding the Porsche style turbos, you still have factory style junk- with the garrets, you have many more options and also, they continuously improve the wheel selection. Boxxersix will tell you that Porsche turbos are not the best and Garrets are a much welcome improvement. If these turbos really use the mitsubishi internals, then that could be an option, Porsche style turbos are not good for big power.


Now, to give you a bit of money saving info...
The way that guy has his car setup (the yellow one) requires the use of a scavenge pump. If you get the TT headers, I would then extend them so turbo center housing is placed above the oil level of the motor so you could just empty them into the valve covers the way protomotive does. This makes things much simpler.
James, you should talk to Glenn (Purplehaze) about his setup, I am sure that he will be a wealth of info for your decision.
__________________
Kris @ Tech9
86' 930/GT-40R Sold
94' Rustang GT daily (long gone)
2008 C6/Z51 Corvette

Last edited by 930gt-40r; 02-14-2009 at 11:08 AM..
Old 02-14-2009, 11:06 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Twins are more fun!
 
JMA-RUF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
I would then extend them so turbo center housing is placed above the oil level of the motor so you could just empty them into the valve covers the way protomotive does.
I was actually considering using one of these electric scavenge pumps.

Gravity drain would certainly be simpler, but I'd still need to pay extra to have the headers cut up and the lower valve covers modded etc.

I think the K16/16G hybrids flow up around the 35lb/min? Need to check on that.
__________________
James
Carrera TT

(3.3, Protomotive MAP ECU, EFI, GT2 EVO CAMs, Twin Plugged, Twin Turbo's)
Old 02-14-2009, 12:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
930gt-40r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,063
Nah man- the lower valve covers are easy, just drill out in the general location and stick a sealed bulkhead fitting (I would use -8), so that would be free labor + $20 worth of fittings. Then as for the headers, if you have a fabricator with a half way ethical price point, it wouldnt cost that much to get them modded as you wish.
Trust me, I am the king of cheap when I want to be
__________________
Kris @ Tech9
86' 930/GT-40R Sold
94' Rustang GT daily (long gone)
2008 C6/Z51 Corvette
Old 02-14-2009, 02:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Twins are more fun!
 
JMA-RUF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
Nah man- the lower valve covers are easy, just drill out in the general location and stick a sealed bulkhead fitting (I would use -8), so that would be free labor + $20 worth of fittings. Then as for the headers, if you have a fabricator with a half way ethical price point, it wouldnt cost that much to get them modded as you wish.
Trust me, I am the king of cheap when I want to be
LOL!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the tip.

I'm considering all options, but I do like the idea of dual B.B GT28RS's

WHat do you think of the PowerTone turbo mufflers I posted in my other thread regarding TT exhausts? I'm leaning towards two of those small mufflers and a GT3 style centre exit
__________________
James
Carrera TT

(3.3, Protomotive MAP ECU, EFI, GT2 EVO CAMs, Twin Plugged, Twin Turbo's)
Old 02-14-2009, 02:43 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
930gt-40r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,063
Your idea of the twin small mufflers is the better one. This will optimize spool- you dont want to use the "X flow muffler" as that will create too much back pressure.
GT3 exit rocks
__________________
Kris @ Tech9
86' 930/GT-40R Sold
94' Rustang GT daily (long gone)
2008 C6/Z51 Corvette
Old 02-14-2009, 03:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
BoxxerSix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ballston Spa, NY
Posts: 528
I'm not sure what motor you have, but twin GT28's on a 3.2L could make incredible power and in my opinion are the way to go. Pending the turbine choice used, there's a frame fitment that pair up could flow enough air for upwards of 950hp. The GT28 designation denotes the turbine frame size(53mm wheel)......the subsequent number(54, 59, 60, 71, 76) denote the compressor wheel diameter(major) they have flow capacities of ~ 150- ~460hp each pending compressor wheel used and what AR turbine housing used. Two 2860R's on a 3.2 with .64 ar housings would be nasty and spool damn quick and be good for a modest 600hp capability without question.

Trying to be cost effective, I think it would be far easier and cheaper to modify existing headers with standard garrett inlet flanges vs machining KKK turbine housing to accept GT cartridges. The rest from that point on out is just basic fabrication and setup. Plus they're already internally gated so it'll simplify installation.

I guess I am impartial to Garrett over KKK, but I think it's mostly due to Garrett's flexible line of choices they have that makes fitment and setup a breeze in application like this.

If you still wanted to pursue the mitsu option I don't see anything wrong with it really. They area a super reliable turbocharger, especially the cartridges from the 03-08 Evo's. You're just going to be paying for the required machine work to adapt the cartridges to a usable turbine housing. OEM evo turbine housings are twin scroll and cannot be used in a twin turbo application on a 6 cylinder.
__________________
Adam Hennessy

Last edited by BoxxerSix; 02-14-2009 at 09:54 PM..
Old 02-14-2009, 08:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Twins are more fun!
 
JMA-RUF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 639
Thanks for the feedback, Adam.

I'm trying to do this as cost effectively as possible without breaking the bank too much.

$1200 for the Mitsu-16G hybrid mod is extremely enticing to me and have heard that many 993TT and 996TT owners are over the moon with their phenomenal performance.

The motor is a Carrera engine with 930 P&C's, GT2 EVO CAMs and Proto MAP ECU. I'll also be getting a 75mm throttle body upgrade too (from the Carrera's 63mm)
__________________
James
Carrera TT

(3.3, Protomotive MAP ECU, EFI, GT2 EVO CAMs, Twin Plugged, Twin Turbo's)
Old 02-14-2009, 09:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
BoxxerSix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ballston Spa, NY
Posts: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMA-RUF View Post
Thanks for the feedback, Adam.

I'm trying to do this as cost effectively as possible without breaking the bank too much.

$1200 for the Mitsu-16G hybrid mod is extremely enticing to me and have heard that many 993TT and 996TT owners are over the moon with their phenomenal performance.

The motor is a Carrera engine with 930 P&C's, GT2 EVO CAMs and Proto MAP ECU. I'll also be getting a 75mm throttle body upgrade too (from the Carrera's 63mm)


Who quoted you the $1200 for the 16G setup? Just curious that's all. Again I don't see anything wrong with going that route. It's actually sorta neat. Be really neat if you could track down a pair of TME 16g's and use those cartridges. Titanium turbine wheels for a super light CHRA that spools insanely fast. Found on the TME rally edition Lancers. TD05HR-16G6 is the fancy term for it. They also had an uber rare version with magnesium compressor wheels that even further lightened the CHRA. Denoted by a burnt orange colored compressor wheel visually.

A friend of mine here just bought an '02 996 Turbo with the Ruf R Turbo 550T conversion on it(silver one from Ruf Autocenter with the GT3 wheels on it) Nice car with good power, but you know enough is never enough. 16G's may be a future mod for him down the road when he learns to tame the power the car has now. Only time will tell


Easy and proven = GT2960R's
Fun and unique = B16g's

I personally don't think either option is going to be any cheaper than the other when all said and done, although I can't say this for certain as I've yet to modify any KKK housing for this mitsu retrofit. Both are going to make power with good drivability. Just a coin toss IMO.
__________________
Adam Hennessy
Old 02-14-2009, 10:07 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Twins are more fun!
 
JMA-RUF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxxerSix View Post
Who quoted you the $1200 for the 16G setup? Just curious that's all.
The Proto crowd are notorious for making these K16/16G or K24/18G hybrids. ProtoSport Inc. quoted me $1200 for the K16/16G rebuild & upgrade.

I believe I may be able to get it done even cheaper from a mob called Blouch Turbo... they do a lot of custom turbo work for these tuners

Their Website states:

Compressor Upgrade Only $350.00
Compressor Upgrade and Rebuild starting at $675.00
__________________
James
Carrera TT

(3.3, Protomotive MAP ECU, EFI, GT2 EVO CAMs, Twin Plugged, Twin Turbo's)
Old 02-14-2009, 11:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Twins are more fun!
 
JMA-RUF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 639
Came across these figures on Rennlist for the K16/16G Hybrid upgrade

Have a look at the power curve! VERY NICE!




Looks like the K16/16G's support a neat 600 crank HP... not too shabby eh?
__________________
James
Carrera TT

(3.3, Protomotive MAP ECU, EFI, GT2 EVO CAMs, Twin Plugged, Twin Turbo's)
Old 02-15-2009, 02:07 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
BoxxerSix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ballston Spa, NY
Posts: 528
I know the Blouch Crowd Tony From EPL works with them consistently. Tony is good people and Blouch makes some GOOD turbo's. Just put a 4.0R on an '06 STI, and a 3.0R on another.
__________________
Adam Hennessy
Old 02-15-2009, 06:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Twins are more fun!
 
JMA-RUF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 639
Cool - I'm aiming for ~550 crank HP, so either the K16/24 or K16/16G would be perfect... the 16G's would offer a bit more top end over the K24's I think. It all comes down to price of course.
__________________
James
Carrera TT

(3.3, Protomotive MAP ECU, EFI, GT2 EVO CAMs, Twin Plugged, Twin Turbo's)
Old 02-15-2009, 04:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
930gt-40r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,063
Tony is right down the street from me- seems to know his stuff.
__________________
Kris @ Tech9
86' 930/GT-40R Sold
94' Rustang GT daily (long gone)
2008 C6/Z51 Corvette
Old 02-15-2009, 09:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMA-RUF View Post
Came across these figures on Rennlist for the K16/16G Hybrid upgrade

Have a look at the power curve! VERY NICE!

Looks like the K16/16G's support a neat 600 crank HP... not too shabby eh?
This was on 996TT which is capable of higher numbers.Does show this type of turbo ability. The 996 K 16's and 993's are quite different however.
Old 02-16-2009, 01:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Twins are more fun!
 
JMA-RUF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by red9 View Post
This was on 996TT which is capable of higher numbers.Does show this type of turbo ability. The 996 K 16's and 993's are quite different however.
Yup, it'd take a little more boost on a 3.3 air-cooled motor to get 600 crank HP with those turbo's
__________________
James
Carrera TT

(3.3, Protomotive MAP ECU, EFI, GT2 EVO CAMs, Twin Plugged, Twin Turbo's)
Old 02-16-2009, 04:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
BoxxerSix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ballston Spa, NY
Posts: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
Tony is right down the street from me- seems to know his stuff.
Yeah he's a motronic wizard. Really knows his 996 tuning well.
__________________
Adam Hennessy
Old 02-16-2009, 05:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:17 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.