Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,289
I installed one of these system one 75 micron oil filters with push on #6 AN fittings in the approximately 10" long section of rubber hose between the oil tank and scavenge pump. The filter is around 2" diameter and 4.5" long.
It fit perfectly in that area next to the other oil lines and lower valve cover, and works great filtering the oil from the turbo before it goes into the oil tank.

I have picture of it but after looking can't find it. If I take another I'll edit it into this post.

Here's a pic from the website, it's toward the bottom of the page. I ordered it from system one and it was around $90with shipping, and the 2 barbed push-on swivel AN fittings were around $4 each and they allow you to unscrew the filter assembly to clean the filter element after loosening the fittings.
I used hoseclamps on the 2 fittings.
http://www.system1filters.com/oil_filters.htm

Old 02-22-2009, 09:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,205
Ben -

Are you of the opinion that Mobil 1 has falllen in relation to other synthetics such as Valvoline?
Seems to be that this is indeed true (?)
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 02-22-2009, 10:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,861
Yes, the only M1 lubricants worth a damn anymore are their motorcycle specific and for gear lubes, their Delvac 1 line.
__________________
Charles Navarro
President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service
http://www.LNengineering.com
Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution
Old 02-22-2009, 10:06 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,289
Pics of system one turbocharger oil filter install

Just took some pics of it.
I bent the metal part of the origonal oil line where it screws into the oil tank from a 90 to 45 degree bend so the rubber section of the oil line wouldn't have a major bend in it. The bottom picture shows that.
I'm pleased with how it came out.



I had to replace my cams and rockers from coked oil chunk > clogged cam spray bars... hopefully never agagin with this filter in the turbo scavenge oil return line.

I could stick my smallest finger into the oil drain plug hole, bend it and feel dirt in the bottom of the oil tank.
So I took the oil tank out and washed it out real good and repainted it. You'll never get all the dirt and carbon particals that settle to the bottom out any other way.
Old 02-22-2009, 10:50 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
Forced Induction Junkie
 
WERK I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,315
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by billjam View Post
Oh ***** Just what I wanted to read on a Sunday morning!
...................The only significant change in this area was the replacement of the old 3LDZ turbo with a newer model K27.
..............
Seems unlikely that so much coke could be in the system since you are using fully synthetic oil. Did the car get stuck in traffic for an extended period on those hot days? Maybe the coke fell down into the turbo sump tank when it was removed from the old 3LDZ turbo? Is the K-27 a brand new turbo?
__________________
Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 02-22-2009, 10:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
Max Sluiter
 
Flieger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 19,574
Garage
Does anyone here use an electric, separate oil pump for turbocharger lubrication? The electric pump could be wired to continue running after the engine was shut down in order to circulate oil through the turbocharger. It seems to me that this would help coking issues, along with the cool down lap.
__________________
911S
1971 chassis, 2.7RS spec MFI engine, suspension mods, lightened

Suspension by Rebel Racing, Serviced by TLG Auto, Brakes by PMB Performance
http://www.flickr.com/photos/max_911_fahrer/
Old 02-22-2009, 12:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,861
A turbo timer would do this, but would keep the engine running - a scavange pump would ensure the oil don't sit in the turbo. But I don't think I've seen anyone do exactly what you've suggested, but it's similar to what I'm doing with my Boxster. The m96 engines in the water-cooled Porsches suffer from heat soak pretty bad (they don't cool off when shut off), and coupled with a low temp thermostat, I'm putting a supplemental 80L/min electric pump with it's own computer (like a turbo timer), designed to operate the fans and pump until coolant reaches a pre-determined temperature (in my case, when the thermostat closes).
__________________
Charles Navarro
President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service
http://www.LNengineering.com
Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution
Old 02-22-2009, 12:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
Registered Driver
 
Helmsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: South Australia
Posts: 281
Garage
Damn now you have me worried too. I am gonna thoroughly check when I drain my oil next and an inline oil filter from the turbo back to the tank is a great idea.
__________________
Ben
'85 930 - Black on Black
'95 993 Turbo - Silver

Last edited by Helmsy; 02-22-2009 at 06:57 PM..
Old 02-22-2009, 04:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
Caveman Hammer Mechanic
 
ClickClickBoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Boulder Creek CA
Posts: 3,311
Garage
Hello,
The oil used for the flushing should be of decent quality, you are gonna change it as soon as color change is detected. If you go to your local petroleum distributor you can most likely buy a drum of Aeroshell 15-50 Aviation oil. It won't be cheap, but cheaper than a teardown. Good job on the inline filter, excellent start!
eric
Old 02-22-2009, 05:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
Certified User
 
billjam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 2,003
Garage
JF: I was looking at doing almost exactly the same thing but have now started on a slightly different approach.
I have just bought a similar filter by KRC Racing (does that mean I will be able to go faster?).
It is 100 micron fuel filter, 140mm long x 50mm diameter primarily designed for fuel injection systems. It has a long tubular stainless steel mesh filter.

I was going to fit it in the hose just before the tank as you did, but my current thinking is to fit it in the engine bay (I have lots of space) for several reasons.
1. Iím not sure how the extra weight hanging off this hose will work long-term.
2. If it is fitted down low, checking the filter will necessitate draining the tank or fitting a shut-off valve between filter and tank . As I intend to check this fairly often, this could be a hassle/more cost/more leak potential/disastrous if I forget to reopen the valve!
3. Iíd also like to fit a pressure gauge just before the filter. This will allow me to monitor the filter at a glance. I donít know what pressure I should expect here. It should be quite low, but for sure if it starts to increase, then I will have to check the filter internally.

I will mount it in the space behind my AC compressor in such a way that I can catch any split oil when I open it up.


JF and Dave: During my year-long rebuild of this car, the turbo sump tank and the main oil tank were fully flushed out and repainted. All rubber oil pressure lines were replaced and all other lines were properly cleaned out. All this coke has been created only over the past two months.
The K27 wasnít new, but it was completely stripped and rebuilt. The hot side and centre housing were sandblasted clean and were spotless when the parts went back together.

Charles: The idea of an electric pump sounds good. Iíd be interested in seeing any datasheets of suitable motor/pump combinations.

Today when I went out shopping for this filter at lunchtime, the temperature in Perth was 33*C (92*F). I left the car idling several times while I was in shops and each time when I came back (yes, it was still there!), the temp gauge had risen from mid-range (needle horizontal) to half way between horizontal and the upper red section. This sort of de-bunks the idle-down theory (which I donít necessarily disagree with) but when the car is idling, it gets hotter, not cooler!

I also had a chat with Shell this morning. It went along these lines Ö
BJ: explained problem, asked if this was normal, asked if there was a more suitable oil in their range.
Shell: Our oils donít do that. Must be from fuel contamination of oil. Click.

I guess fuel contamination is always a possibility, but with new or recond fuel system (fuel distributor, injectors, WUR) and AFRs mostly 12 to 13 through the range, I just canít see this being a factor.
__________________
Bill
1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 02-22-2009, 09:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #30 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,861
I don't think fuel is a factor. Your problem wasn't in their Q&A pamphlet, so you got the cold shoulder. Don't feel bad, pretty much every big petroleum company is that way.

I know that Turbokraft advertises an electric scavange pump, maybe you can email or call Chris about it. It may be that adding the pump pulls the oil from the turbo, preventing it from getting coked in the first place. But your guess is as good as mine.
__________________
Charles Navarro
President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service
http://www.LNengineering.com
Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution
Old 02-23-2009, 04:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #31 (permalink)
Registered User
 
boostfix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 257
Could the oil flow through the turbo be less volume than ideal? Obviously you have enough flow for lubrication or your turbo would be seized but is there enough flow for adequate cooling? With a reduced flow would the oil not take on a higher temperature rise than normal and thus create a coking problem?

BTW - I like your idea of a pressure guage ahead of the filter on the oil return line.
__________________
Dan
88 930 blk/gry
Old 02-23-2009, 06:15 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #32 (permalink)
 
resident samsquamch
 
sand_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,815
I'm actually in the process of building a new scavenge pump to oil tank line. And I'll finally be using the System1 oil filter (looks like the same one I have) that's been sitting unused on my parts shelf. Can anyone tell me what size fitting is needed for the oil tank? I want to be sure I order the correct fitting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
Just took some pics of it.
I bent the metal part of the origonal oil line where it screws into the oil tank from a 90 to 45 degree bend so the rubber section of the oil line wouldn't have a major bend in it. The bottom picture shows that.
__________________
-jeff
back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)

Last edited by sand_man; 02-23-2009 at 07:06 AM..
Old 02-23-2009, 07:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #33 (permalink)
Caveman Hammer Mechanic
 
ClickClickBoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Boulder Creek CA
Posts: 3,311
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by billjam View Post

Today when I went out shopping for this filter at lunchtime, the temperature in Perth was 33*C (92*F). I left the car idling several times while I was in shops and each time when I came back (yes, it was still there!), the temp gauge had risen from mid-range (needle horizontal) to half way between horizontal and the upper red section. This sort of de-bunks the idle-down theory (which I donít necessarily disagree with) but when the car is idling, it gets hotter, not cooler!
Well, If you think beyond the obvious, the cooldown theory is confirmed. By default the turbo is hotter than the oil, in fact if it is in the 400F range you will experience coking no matter what the oil choice. The fact that the temp guage rose is twofold, 1#-your cooling fan is rotating slowly, 2#-the oil is in fact doing its job, cooling the motor, turbo and removing the built up heat to outside the motor and turbo. Oil cooling is more than 40% of your total cooling. Don"t be confused, its not logical until you think about it.
Hola
eric
Old 02-23-2009, 07:50 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #34 (permalink)
Certified User
 
billjam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 2,003
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfix View Post
Could the oil flow through the turbo be less volume than ideal? Obviously you have enough flow for lubrication or your turbo would be seized but is there enough flow for adequate cooling? With a reduced flow would the oil not take on a higher temperature rise than normal and thus create a coking problem?

BTW - I like your idea of a pressure guage ahead of the filter on the oil return line.
As soon as I get a chance I will be looking at this issue. I plan to disconnect the hose at the tank and cap or plug the tank fitting so I can run the engine to see what sort of flow rate I have at the end of the line. If I think it looks too slow, I'll have to get at the oil feed line to the turbo and see what comes out of there.
I am not looking forward to doing this with my nice clean engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClickClickBoom View Post
Well, If you think beyond the obvious, the cooldown theory is confirmed. By default the turbo is hotter than the oil, in fact if it is in the 400F range you will experience coking no matter what the oil choice. The fact that the temp guage rose is twofold, 1#-your cooling fan is rotating slowly, 2#-the oil is in fact doing its job, cooling the motor, turbo and removing the built up heat to outside the motor and turbo. Oil cooling is more than 40% of your total cooling. Don"t be confused, its not logical until you think about it.
Hola
eric

I agree, Eric.
I have since thought this through and came to same conclusion.
However, I am sure there is a point in time where the decrease in turbo temp starts to be offset by the increasing engine temp. The turbo still has hot exhaust gas pushing through it so there must be some point beyond which it won't cool any further, and may start to get hotter again due to higher oil temp.
I guess that would be the optimum time for a turbo-timer to run.
__________________
Bill
1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 02-23-2009, 01:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #35 (permalink)
Forced Induction Junkie
 
WERK I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,315
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by billjam View Post
.................................................. ..................
Today when I went out shopping for this filter at lunchtime, the temperature in Perth was 33*C (92*F). I left the car idling several times while I was in shops and each time when I came back (yes, it was still there!), the temp gauge had risen from mid-range (needle horizontal) to half way between horizontal and the upper red section. This sort of de-bunks the idle-down theory (which I donít necessarily disagree with) but when the car is idling, it gets hotter, not cooler!
.........................
Idling for extended periods is should be avoided. I've seen my oil temps go up like you've seen with outside temps like you described. Driving a few kms above 50kms/hr brings the temps back down to normal. The problem is there's insufficient amounts of air moving around the external oil cooler(s) to dissipate the heat from them. The fan and internal oil cooler can not perform adequately under these conditions. I would not worry about turbo cool down procedures unless you have been driving under boost conditions. One minute idling is sufficient for a cool down.

Here is a temp gauge exposed with C degree markers.



Keep in mind when the temp gauge is in the 120* C (248*F) range, the oil is overheating and is probably breaking down and has shortened its life and effectiveness. In real life, the oil temps should not go above the middle unnumbered marked (105*C/221*F). Above that you're looking at oil breaking down, shortened change cycle, tarring and worse......coking on extreme temperature parts.
__________________
Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 02-23-2009, 01:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #36 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,205
I'd think a great solution would be an external fan, a high speed SPAL fan with a high temperature tube ending perhaps 4 inches form the turbo in a lateral direction.

Timer or switch activated -
__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 02-23-2009, 02:13 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #37 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,289
I think you would find the fan melted.. it gets REALLY hot for about a half foot radius around the turbo up under the bumper.
If the fan was all metal it would have to be a very expensive one to put up with that kind of heat for any amount of time.
Old 02-23-2009, 02:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #38 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,861
How about a mechanical solution - Canton's turbo oiler:

http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=24-150
__________________
Charles Navarro
President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service
http://www.LNengineering.com
Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution
Old 02-23-2009, 03:07 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #39 (permalink)
Me like track days
 
Craig 930 RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,205
It wouldn't melt - the fan would be perhaps 2-3 feet away from the turbo itself.
Now to FIND that high temp hose........

__________________
- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 02-23-2009, 03:20 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #40 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:30 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.