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'85 930 - Black on Black
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Old 02-23-2009, 03:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #41 (permalink)
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Would seafoam break down the coke as well as the carbon?
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Old 02-23-2009, 05:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS View Post
I'd think a great solution would be an external fan, a high speed SPAL fan with a high temperature tube ending perhaps 4 inches form the turbo in a lateral direction.

Timer or switch activated -
Sorry,
Wast of time, when you consider the volume of air flowing through the turbo, turbine and compressor sides, the cooling from an external medium such as air to metal is minimal no matter how much air you can push over the turbo. Without shrouds around the turbo the cooling effect would be minimal. Go to http://www.pre-luber.com/ and check out their pre/post oiler setups, 2-300 bucks, not as blingy as the race setups but very effictive and simple too.
eric
Old 02-23-2009, 06:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClickClickBoom View Post
Sorry,
Go to http://www.pre-luber.com/ and check out their pre/post oiler setups, 2-300 bucks, not as blingy as the race setups but very effictive and simple too.
eric
Some really neat stuff there, but could pose some additional problems in our application.
I presume the electric pump would suck oil from the main tank, but where does it go once the turbo sump tank is full. I can't see it forcing its way through the scavenge pump back to the oil tank.
Also, if the turbine isn't spinning (engine stopped) and oil pressure is applied to the turbo, won't oil leak into the hot-side housing? I am sure my K27 doesn't have a mechanical seal on this side of the bearing housing; I think it is just a close tolerance gap between the housing and the shaft which relies on there being some pressure in the exhaust side and/or some suction from the scavenge pump to keep the oil from leaking into the exhaust side. Turbo experts?
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:08 PM
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Are there any drawbacks with wrapping the exhaust turbine side housing with thermal wrapping material to keep heat down? I think that you could avoid heating the engine tin and bumper around and above the turbine housing thus reducing temps in the engine bay and from heating the distributor body up so high in addition to melting the plastic center reflector.
This may lower cooling air temps that get sucked in thru the engine fan as well because engine compartment is now cooler. Would this increase temps of the turbo centersection which contains the oil we are discussing and make the problem worse or would the reduction in air temp around the turbo because of the wrap make it better?
You would pick up a little efficiency in the turbine side as well, making more hp. An added plus.
I just don't see the negatives to this wrap, I fear I am overlooking something here. Any advice?
Fred
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---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 02-24-2009, 10:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #45 (permalink)
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Slight efficiency increase , but the heat retained....yowch.
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS View Post
Slight efficiency increase , but the heat retained....yowch.
So you are saying the end result is much higher center section temps than the other benefits posted? How much more temp would you see in the center section specifically the oil flowong thru it?
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 02-24-2009, 11:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #47 (permalink)
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Send Kevin M a brief note at www.ultimatemotorwerks.com
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"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 02-24-2009, 11:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #48 (permalink)
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Well, here is the reply I received from Kevin - don't send him a note:

Not good for our turbo design.. It's not bad when you have a watercooled turbocharger.. We don't have that system. Heat is our enemy and a wrap contains it once the turbo is shut off..



>
> What IS your opinion on a 'turbo wrap', ie wrapping the hot side in
> an inconel wrap?
>
> Craig
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"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 02-24-2009, 11:25 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #49 (permalink)
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Question answered......thanks.
I think I am gonna tape the sheet metal over the turbo with heat resist tape now. This should serve the same purpose more or less. At least radiant heat should be drastically reduced.
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 02-24-2009, 12:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #50 (permalink)
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Update

I have now fitted my new turbo oil filter in the scavenge pump output line.

.

I fitted a 0-15 psi gauge on the inlet side of the filter so I could monitor the state of the filter. At idle, it shows about 1 psi. At about 4000 rpm it shows 1.5 psi when filter is clean (red line in pic). This is lower than I expected, but quite encouraging as it means the 100 micron filter has very low resistance to oil flow.
I have run it for a couple of days (about 50km) and there was no carbon collected (also encouraging).

I have also run the engine with the hose from the scavenge pump dumping into a container. At idle, it pumped about one litre per minute. This is also encouraging as it means no restriction in the oil system to and from the turbo - a potential cause of coking due to not enough flow.

I'll do another oil change soon and hopefully the problem is licked - or at least manageable.

Just another point of interest, the hose from the scavenge pump can be disconnected at the tank without having to drain the tank. It seems that even though the connection is at the bottom of the tank, there must be a pipe on the inside which goes up to a point above the normal oil level.
I'd love to see what's inside one of these if anyone's got photos.
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1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
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Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 02-25-2009, 02:58 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmeister View Post
Question answered......thanks.
I think I am gonna tape the sheet metal over the turbo with heat resist tape now. This should serve the same purpose more or less. At least radiant heat should be drastically reduced.
Wasn't there a heat shield between the bumper/reflector on the stock 930? if not I was definately going to make up a reflector after I get the motor in the car to protect the paint and plastic.
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" Porsche there is no substitute" I always liked that saying. Air cooled is the only way to go!
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76 Blazer also restored by me
Old 02-25-2009, 03:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #52 (permalink)
 
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quote" Just another point of interest, the hose from the scavenge pump can be disconnected at the tank without having to drain the tank. It seems that even though the connection is at the bottom of the tank, there must be a pipe on the inside which goes up to a point above the normal oil level.
I'd love to see what's inside one of these if anyone's got photos "quote

the pipe probably goes up to the filter like the hose coming back from the cooler does it would make sense because if you didn't then unfiltered oil would go to the motor from the turbo.
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" Porsche there is no substitute" I always liked that saying. Air cooled is the only way to go!
76 911 C.R.A.P. Gruppe #2 BIG time TURBO C.R.A.P. Bitz EFI/EDIS Now MegaSquirt 3
76 Blazer also restored by me
Old 02-25-2009, 03:47 AM
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Very clever mod.

I believe that an additional gauge on the other side of the filter would really tell you the pressure drop through the screen and consequently amount of obstructions. M2c
Old 02-25-2009, 03:51 AM
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Pareto Point's Mag Dog magnetic bypass filter (sold by Weltmeister) has a port on it for this same reason, to log the pressure before the filter. By keeping an eye on the delta from clean to dirty, you can figure out ideally when you need to be changing your oil filter. But Miguel's completely right, two gauges would take the question of oil temperature and viscosity out of the equation, allowing you to compare the raw pressure delta across the filter. Great work regardless!
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Old 02-25-2009, 04:07 AM
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I'll also throw out that aviation engine oils are non-detergent and really shouldn't be used. They aren't formulated anywhere near an automotive oil for a completely different set of requirements.

http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueja02/Hangar7802.html
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Old 02-25-2009, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsmith660 View Post

the pipe probably goes up to the filter like the hose coming back from the cooler does it would make sense because if you didn't then unfiltered oil would go to the motor from the turbo.
I think that's what we're saying the problem is and thus the reason for this mod: that unfilltered oil is going into the tank from the turbo scavenge pump. I was wondering if any oil would pour out of the tank if I disconnected that line...now I know. Sure is a curious thing though. I'll check my library of photos to see if I have any pictures of an opened oil tank.
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Old 02-25-2009, 04:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #57 (permalink)
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If you read up he can disconnect the hose at the bottom and it would not make any sense at all to dump unfiltered oil into the tank from the turbo, the problem is when the filter gets clogged it bypasses and dumps unfiltered oil into the tank.
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76 Blazer also restored by me
Old 02-25-2009, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsmith660 View Post
If you read up he can disconnect the hose at the bottom and it would not make any sense at all to dump unfiltered oil into the tank from the turbo, the problem is when the filter gets clogged it bypasses and dumps unfiltered oil into the tank.
Yes I caught that he can disconnect the line without losing oil from the tank. I truly don't know the inner-workings of the 930 oil tank, so I don't know for sure if there is a pipe inside that runs up to the oil filter from the tank scavenge pump fitting. Even Porsche has been known to do things that don't make sense. I would indeed feel better if what you say is true.
Keep in mind, that on a cold engine, the dip stick usually reads nothing...granted it doesn't reach the bottom of the tank either. So perhaps the level just wasn't high enough for oil to leak out of that opening
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
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Old 02-25-2009, 06:27 AM
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Interesting and controversial quote from that aviation oil site Charles posted:

"• Multiviscosity mineral AD oils "seat" piston rings in approximately half the time of a straight grade oil. Synthetics are unable to break-in an engine. "

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Old 02-25-2009, 06:49 AM
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