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type of turbocharger

OK here is another question. Are most people using KKK or Garrett turboachargers for upgrades? Where are you guys getting them from?
Old 02-22-2009, 05:07 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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There was a thread on that recently:

KKK turbo VS GT series 30-35

I handle the K27 line if you are interested.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-22-2009, 07:02 PM
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Please excuse my hijacking, but for those of us that are purists and stay with KKK turbos (specifically K27 versions), is it possible to have our turbos rebuilt to different standards? I'm thinking of my K27 7006 - which I'm generally pleased with, with it's ability to sustain top-end boost, but I often think that I would be better off with a 7200 to get quicker boost onset and trade off the top end of the 7006.
Can it be done...taking compressor and turbo wheels from a 7200 and stuffing them into a 7006 housing? Or does it even make sense to do this?
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Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.
Old 02-22-2009, 07:21 PM
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I used Kevin at Ultimate motorwerks. Gave him a core K27, he gave me back a K27hf I believe. He can pretty much build anything you want or need. One day I will install all the parts that look so good gathering dust on the shelf!
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Old 02-22-2009, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark houghton View Post
Can it be done...taking compressor and turbo wheels from a 7200 and stuffing them into a 7006 housing? Or does it even make sense to do this?
Only if you want better performance...

My K27/HF makes .5 bar @ 2400 and 395 FWHP @ 5700 (max power moved up 600RPM, as well as increased significantly).

http://www.imagineauto.com/turbos.htm gives a breakdown of the models. IIRC, Kevin no longer makes the HF, as it fell right between the K27/S and the K27/HFS.
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Old 02-22-2009, 10:12 PM
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Mark, you can have any K27 made to order but it is expensive. Better off to trade in your 7006 as a core and buy a 7200.
The HF is still in production, I carry that model as well. Sorry if any confusion. I work closely with Kevin and carry/support the entire line.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-23-2009, 05:12 AM
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How much is the 7006 worth as a "core"? How much could you get for it selling it here?
Old 02-23-2009, 05:23 AM
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I think when my mood and pocket book allows, I'll eventually go with a K27S. But with the increased inlet diameter, does this also mean some plumbing changes? It sounds like it wouldn't be a direct bolt-on replacement to my current 7006.

Now on the topic of "my turbo builds boost faster than yours" (kinda like when we we were kids claiming that my dad could beat the crap outa yours), it all depends on which gear and what rpm you start the challenge at, doesn't it? If I were to claim that my setup builds .5 bar at 2400 rpms (Spuggy, I don't doubt that that's true in your case), under what conditions does that happen? 1st gear tromp to the floor while you 'attempt' to keep your eyes on two gauges and the road - with your tires breaking loose and the front end coming off the ground...or in a lazy first to second gear shift, stomping it at say 2000 rpms and seeing .5bar 500 rpm's later...or a more docile lugging along in 3rd at say 2000 before puting your foot into it? Just so we're all on the same page and can do an apple-to-apples comparison, what's the standard operating procedure for this type of assessment?
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:26 AM
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Yes you need a 3" inlet for the K27S to take advantage of the early spool characteristic of that housing.
I look at boost threshold/lag in a gear that will allow you to see it well. A strong car won't show lag in 1st gear as it all happens too fast. 2nd or 3rd on a flat road is good.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-23-2009, 09:59 AM
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That is interesting - I just bought a K27S from Kevin but did not know that you had to modify the inlet to take advantage of the K27S. fwiw my car is euro stock except Kokeln, 1bar spring and free flow exhaust.
Is there anyone up there who offers a kit with all the required parts?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Yes you need a 3" inlet for the K27S to take advantage of the early spool characteristic of that housing.
I look at boost threshold/lag in a gear that will allow you to see it well. A strong car won't show lag in 1st gear as it all happens too fast. 2nd or 3rd on a flat road is good.
Old 02-23-2009, 10:33 AM
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One of my projects is a 3" inlet pipe for the 930. It is a lot trickier than you would think. That is one messed up convoluted pipe.
What you can do for the S as a stop-gap is to use a reducer hose to connect the 930 turbo intlet pipe to the turbo. That reducer will go from 3" to 2.75" ID and will allow the turbo inlet to work a little better.
At some point I plan to offer a true bolt on kit for the K27 series that includes the up-pipe adapter, 3" inlet pipe and modified turbo bracket. If only I didn't have to sleep at night ...
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-23-2009, 02:15 PM
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thanks for your feedback. What i am unclear is whether the current inlet tubing will fit the k27s ie having a larger inlet is just nice to have or whether i need an adapter for the inlet (i already have the adapter for the up pipe)? Thks again for your time.
Quote:
One of my projects is a 3" inlet pipe for the 930. It is a lot trickier than you would think. That is one messed up convoluted pipe.

What you can do for the S as a stop-gap is to use a reducer hose to connect the 930 turbo intlet pipe to the turbo. That reducer will go from 3" to 2.75" ID and will allow the turbo inlet to work a little better.

At some point I plan to offer a true bolt on kit for the K27 series that includes the up-pipe adapter, 3" inlet pipe and modified turbo bracket. If only I didn't have to sleep at night ...

Last edited by 1100sport; 02-23-2009 at 03:42 PM..
Old 02-23-2009, 03:39 PM
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Yes the stock pipe will fit and you can make the stock rubber piece fit also but may as well use the reducer to get more out of your K27S design. I have some pictures but my main computer is down right now. The reducer costs about $20 from any ricer website.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-23-2009, 08:15 PM
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ok thanks. I assume that the 3" side is for the turbo inlet and the 2.75" for the inlet pipe and that you use some kind of sylicon hose with clamps to hold the reducer on each end - or do you just plug the reducer over the turbo inlet ? Sorry if this is a silly question, but I am new to all this "tubing" fiddling!

Another question: is the 965 inlet tubing also in 2.75" diameter from the rubber elbow downwards? If it was in 3", it would be a good performance upgrade for all 930.


A picture would be greatly appreciated... Thank you very much!

Last edited by 1100sport; 02-24-2009 at 02:07 AM..
Old 02-24-2009, 01:42 AM
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Will the 3" turbo inlet make any sense at all if the inlet pipe is 2,75" only?
Old 02-24-2009, 05:31 AM
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No the 965 pipe will not fit a 930. The chassis on the 965 is actually releaved in that area to make room for a much better inlet pipe design.
The pipe area in most need of expansion is the 90* bend near the turbo inlet. That change will open things up enough for the air to flow as required. The 965 CIS assembly up steam is the same 930 castings from 1978, so yes just having a bigger pipe does make a difference.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-24-2009, 06:37 AM
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RarlyL8, when you say "that change will open things up", are you refering to the reducer (to be fitted between the 90* bend and the turbo inlet) or do you mean changing the 90* bend and replacing it with a less convoluted higher flow tube/connection?
Thank you again... ;-)
Old 02-24-2009, 08:44 AM
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To get full use of the K27S both the pipe inlet and 90* bend need to be 3"ID.
Replacing the stock 930 2.75" hose piece with a 2.75/3.00 step-up hose is better than using the stock 2.75 hose but not as good as replacing the pipe.
That is a bit confusing. Bottom line is that if you simply bolt on the K27S using the stock 930 down pipe and connecting hose you will not receive the added benefit produced by the 3" inlet of the K27S. That benefit is a ~300rpm reduction in boost threshold.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-24-2009, 09:01 AM
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Thanks for these great advices.
Well, if you ever take the time to put together a 3" kit for the inlet tubing, just let me know I will purchase it right away! For the time being I will make do with the 2.75/3" step up hose.
Regards
Mathieu
Old 02-25-2009, 03:19 AM
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