M&K 993 930 Pipes Mounted

[RarlyL8]

I mounted Ben's 993 930 setup on my mule engine today to check out the fitment. I was wanting to leave as many stock parts in place as possible, such as the turbo oil tank and OEM Euro oil lines. Looks like the oil lines might work but the little sump tank may not. I'll have to see when it gets on my car.
Anyway the waste gates are in a nice spot for some cool tailpipe layouts.

[s5uewf]

Most excellent!

Looks like nice work. Can't wait to see the torque curves and HP curves compared to the stock pipes? Are the stock pipes you will be testing the same design as the 1988 vintage stock pipes?

[964 T #304]

I would like to see comparison with stock 965 exhaust with identical turbos>

[RarlyL8]

Yes I will compare this system to the stock Euro/late 930 exchangers with J-pipe.
The stock Euro/late 930 and 965 heat exchangers with J-pipe are the same so I would expect similar results with this system on either car.
One problem with this testing is the muffler. As we all know, back pressure on the turbo costs power and creates lag. Free flowing muffler will be used on both systems to compare results. Both the 965 and 930 have restrictive muffler systems so results will not be as good if using stock mufflers.

[jcc911]

Looking forward to the updates, thanks!

[Hayabusa]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Yes I will compare this system to the stock Euro/late 930 exchangers with J-pipe.
The stock Euro/late 930 and 965 heat exchangers with J-pipe are the same so I would expect similar results with this system on either car.
One problem with this testing is the muffler. As we all know, back pressure on the turbo costs power and creates lag. Free flowing muffler will be used on both systems to compare results. Both the 965 and 930 have restrictive muffler systems so results will not be as good if using stock mufflers.

Monty used to make decent mufflers for the turbo. Are they still in business?

[mb911]

Originally Posted by Hayabusa

Monty used to make decent mufflers for the turbo. Are they still in business?

not sure if they still are making them but I doubt that Brian will use any muffler but his own www.rarlyl8.com

[Craig 930 RS]

So the 993 setup is not even yet proven to fit??? Or have I misunderstood -

[RarlyL8]

Let me clarify.
I am looking at the stock oil sump tank configurations and stock oil lines.
There are (3) different OEM oil sump tanks and (2) different OEM oil lines. I have them all and want to see which ones can be used. May save someone a few dollars they don't have to spend if these items are on their car now.

[mb911]

Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS

So the 993 setup is not even yet proven to fit??? Or have I misunderstood -

oh no its is proven to fit with a good amount of wiggle room

[Hayabusa]

Originally Posted by mb911

not sure if they still are making them but I doubt that Brian will use any muffler but his own www.rarlyl8.com

Sorry about the mix up, Ben. Nice offering you have, Brian. I should pay more attention.

[mb911]

ok I have 1 more these that was part of the original build . it is somewhat dinged up as it was the learning how to produce unit. nothing wrong functionally but if anyone wants it $525 plus shipping. I know this is not the FS thread but since it was posted

[Eric86Red911]

Seems like a good configuration for a single turbo setup, except for the wastegate piping design. That's pretty far from ideal since the exhaust gas will have to take an abrupt turn to go out the wastegate. Probably will cause a lot of boost creep, especially if used in a low boost application. I assume there must be space limitations or something.

I'm certainly not trying to piss on somebody's project; just trying to be helpful.

[911st]

Brian,

Great idea of using the same muffler on the same car with the change being the header / WG portion.

I like /prefer the idea of comparing the euro HE's but many may still think the B&B's are the best in class.

I still hope it will be possible that the boost curve can be monitored by the dyno against TQ & HP for comparison. Many have this capacity.

This is a better place to see any differences in the WG taper profiles, header efficiency, boost onset points, and full target boost achievement points.

Further, the turbo chosen may be important to help display what I suspect will be a large advantage of the 993HE's with its increased wast-gate capacity.

With a stock 930 or K27-7200 this dose not seem to be and issue.

As you know, the small turbine quick spool K29's and HF's are thought by some to be susceptible to over-boost. The 993's should allow for a higher initial boost setting and more stable boost management through out the operating range.

Keep up the good work.

[mb911]

Originally Posted by Eric86Red911

Seems like a good configuration for a single turbo setup, except for the wastegate piping design. That's pretty far from ideal since the exhaust gas will have to take an abrupt turn to go out the wastegate. Probably will cause a lot of boost creep, especially if used in a low boost application. I assume there must be space limitations or something.

I'm certainly not trying to piss on somebody's project; just trying to be helpful.

not to worry. When I made them it was simply packaging. I had to package it to work with stock or aftermarket mufflers. if that were not the case it would have worked much better but regardless remember how many 90's there are on a single wastegate not including the poor flow design of a 46mm wastegate and not to mention how the flow at the connection point of a single wastegated Y works.

[911st]

Just thinking out loud, there has to be some level of VE improvement with the 993HE's over the euros.

[mb911]

Originally Posted by 911st

Just thinking out loud, there has to be some level of VE improvement with the 993HE's over the euros.

oh yeah without doubt. there is large primaries and short as well

[RarlyL8]

Yes, boost will be monitored as an important part of the test. If nothing else, the volume of 2 38mm waste gates should help with creep.

My focus is always on the street CIS engine and the typical bolt-on mods done by the majority of 930 owners. The test engine is strapped down to 0.7bar boost and a K27-7200 turbo. I may raise the boost to 1.0bar to better test the waste gates. Doing that will require a WUR adjustment though, which takes time and will soil the test. No more apples to apples.

On a related note I am developing a header for the 930. It will be sized appropriately for the mid-range HP CIS engines and has short equal length primaries with thort equal length secondaries. I have not seen any other like it on the market that are not custom. Pelican may pick it up with the rest of my line.

[DDDD]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Yes, boost will be monitored as an important part of the test. If nothing else, the volume of 2 38mm waste gates should help with creep.

My focus is always on the street CIS engine and the typical bolt-on mods done by the majority of 930 owners. The test engine is strapped down to 0.7bar boost and a K27-7200 turbo. I may raise the boost to 1.0bar to better test the waste gates. Doing that will require a WUR adjustment though, which takes time and will soil the test. No more apples to apples.

On a related note I am developing a header for the 930. It will be sized appropriately for the mid-range HP CIS engines and has short equal length primaries with thort equal length secondaries. I have not seen any other like it on the market that are not custom. Pelican may pick it up with the rest of my line.

I am glad you are developing short equal length headers. I don't think B+B did anything magic in their design. They just made the headers as short as possible. We all want that elusive perfect header, more power, less weight, good price and long lasting welds...

In a bad economy, I believe people will try a lesser known product if it costs less than B+B and has a similiar power effect. Especially if the welds last longer. Look at how many people bought GSF/OBX products, and those are essentially a crap shoot in some people's opinions.

[RarlyL8]

The 993 based system is a very nice alternative when you consider quality/longevity and price; and you get REAL HEAT.
What I am working on fits a different niche and will not be OBX cheap.