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Location: New Windsor NY
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Well all the questions you ask are good. I just came back from the shop. I thought I was getting the car today. I drove it. Drove fine, until about 3200 RPM then it would starve for fuel. They spent the about 2 hours on timing. They drilled a hole in the exhaust and put a fitting on where the two header leads go to the turbo. They hooked up to a computer and read the air to fuel mix. They made the adjustments and it runs beautifully. Still at around 32-3300 RPMs it would starve for fuel.

We checked the two fuel pumps and found that the rear fuel pump was not plugged in. We plugged it in and it worked like a charm. Only thing is when we went for a road test, it is now to much fuel. So I just left the car there now to be retimed and the air fuel mixture readjusted. I should be in the car tomorrow.

A bunch of small things seemed to have popped up. The sump cover on the bottom of the engine was leaking and stripped and we got a new one. One of the oil sumps lines on the pass side to the main oil sump was leaking. We changed that. The rear sway bar links had to be changed.

Anyway. I am trying to be calm. I should have the car tomorrow.

Rob
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1985 Euro Red Carrera Coupe."SOLD",1985 White Targa Carrera. "SOLD",1977 Yellow 930. "SOLD",1991 Black 964 C4. "SOLD",2002 Silver 996 C4 Cab "SOLD",
2001 Polar Silver 996 twin Turbo
Old 10-08-2009, 06:52 PM
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Mine was in the shop for a month before i got it back, it was in line wating for the right mechanic to free up to work on it... hang in there IT'S ALL WORTH THE WAIT!
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'76 Turbo Carrera #311 - Factory LSD, Sport Seats
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Old 10-08-2009, 07:06 PM
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To get your fuel right they will need to make the WUR adjustable, or they will be pulling it apart, making slight adjustments, putting it back together, testing, taking it apart etc etc etc etc. Hopefully they will get it right for you! Otherwise get it sent to Brian leask

What is more important first, in my opinion, is that you know for sure that you are getting exactly the same fuel to each cylinder. Testing the AFR's with a single sensor only gives you an average over the 6 cylinders, 4 could be spot on, one really rich and one dangerously lean, that's a recipe for disaster! When you have checked delivery from each injector simultaneously and you know them to be bang on, then you can read the AFR's from that one sensor and know everything is right. Get your mechanic to read this thread Meter head flow adjustment question??

Another point, the sensor should be placed about 3 or 4" away from the turbo, not before it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by occb2 View Post
Well all the questions you ask are good. I just came back from the shop. I thought I was getting the car today. I drove it. Drove fine, until about 3200 RPM then it would starve for fuel. They spent the about 2 hours on timing. They drilled a hole in the exhaust and put a fitting on where the two header leads go to the turbo. They hooked up to a computer and read the air to fuel mix. They made the adjustments and it runs beautifully. Still at around 32-3300 RPMs it would starve for fuel.

We checked the two fuel pumps and found that the rear fuel pump was not plugged in. We plugged it in and it worked like a charm. Only thing is when we went for a road test, it is now to much fuel. So I just left the car there now to be retimed and the air fuel mixture readjusted. I should be in the car tomorrow.

A bunch of small things seemed to have popped up. The sump cover on the bottom of the engine was leaking and stripped and we got a new one. One of the oil sumps lines on the pass side to the main oil sump was leaking. We changed that. The rear sway bar links had to be changed.

Anyway. I am trying to be calm. I should have the car tomorrow.

Rob
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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 10-09-2009, 01:47 AM
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It is. I guess I didn't type it right. The port they made is in the right spot. They set up computers for 930's. They put it in the same place they would put the sensor for the computer probe. In fact they recommed that I get that computer. Right off the top of my head I don't remember what it is called. I will show them link you wrote.

Other question. Does anyone have the wiring diagram for the gauges? I have a few that are not working.

The oil level pegs right when I put the key in the acc. spot. I know from prior issues that, that is a issue with grounding and the sensor is fine. But my boost gauge is fine until I hit the gas. Then it pegs. Which is leading me to believe that its the boost gauge sensor.

Also the two light on the gauge for the oil pressue and temp, don't work at all. I want to trace them back to the sensors. I changed both when I did the engine. Also they didn't work when I got the car. That was why I had them changed.

Rob
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1985 Euro Red Carrera Coupe."SOLD",1985 White Targa Carrera. "SOLD",1977 Yellow 930. "SOLD",1991 Black 964 C4. "SOLD",2002 Silver 996 C4 Cab "SOLD",
2001 Polar Silver 996 twin Turbo
Old 10-09-2009, 04:15 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #84 (permalink)
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JBL930, how do I send my WUR to Brian Leask?

I have the car and took it to Cape Cod. In fact I am here now. Since I picked up the car, it has a bad popping / bucking at 3000 RPM. From reading it seems to be running rich. I did use a tank of gas in about three hours of driving. Besides that. The car runs great, sounds great. Starts up in a second, hot or cold. The smell from the engine bay's new paint job and the engine braking in is driving me nuts. Stinks.

It will be going back to the shop tomorrow. I am going to have him bypass the whole slide valve thing and go to a blow off valve. I think that is what is going on. I am also going to have him put a new diaphragm in the waist gate.

I'll let you guys know.

Rob
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1985 Euro Red Carrera Coupe."SOLD",1985 White Targa Carrera. "SOLD",1977 Yellow 930. "SOLD",1991 Black 964 C4. "SOLD",2002 Silver 996 C4 Cab "SOLD",
2001 Polar Silver 996 twin Turbo
Old 10-12-2009, 05:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #85 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by occb2 View Post
JBL930, how do I send my WUR to Brian Leask?

I have the car and took it to Cape Cod. In fact I am here now. Since I picked up the car, it has a bad popping / bucking at 3000 RPM. From reading it seems to be running rich. I did use a tank of gas in about three hours of driving. Besides that. The car runs great, sounds great. Starts up in a second, hot or cold. The smell from the engine bay's new paint job and the engine braking in is driving me nuts. Stinks.

It will be going back to the shop tomorrow. I am going to have him bypass the whole slide valve thing and go to a blow off valve. I think that is what is going on. I am also going to have him put a new diaphragm in the waist gate.

I'll let you guys know.

Rob
This is the link you need Adjustable 930 WUR Website tell him any and every mod on the engine, what boost level you are running etc etc, he will then set the WUR up to what he thinks will be close, and probably advise on whether he thinks you need the RPM solenoid switch too, if not ask him what he thinks.
Anyway, give his whole web site a good read, it should all make sense. Most guys still on CIS here have this modification done to their WUR, it's a tried and tested approach to having decent control over your fueling. You will need to do some final tweaks to get it spot on, but it comes with a fool proof manual which makes it simple.
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87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 10-12-2009, 05:47 AM
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a little TLC and that will be a great car
Old 10-13-2009, 12:01 PM
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I spoke to Brian today. Man what a great guy. Right now I will wait. I have to find out to see if my WUR is working. Also since its a 77 he did not recommend to make it adjustable. If my WUR is not working, then I will buy a newer one and send it to him. I plan on making it mostly stock.

It is still driving me crazy this poping sound. As of today, I dropped the car off to the mechanice and he is going to bypass the Porsche slideoff valve and go to a blow off valve and long neck intercooler. We'll see.

I have him checking the wastegate also. We'll see.

Any help would be great.

Rob
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2001 Polar Silver 996 twin Turbo
Old 10-13-2009, 05:13 PM
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One of the coolest things in this thread is how your shop allows you to participate right along with them when you want. In one of your posts you mentioned that you were at the shop till 12AM or so before you left for the night. This is so far from the "employees only" sign on most shops door.

I live in Yorktown, which is nothwest of New Rochelle by maybe 30 minutes. I have used the shop that re-did your transaxle with old gaskets for an alignment and won't be going back there. If I ever get to the point I need another shop, I will certainly talk to these MTECH guys, based on your report.
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:30 PM
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Yea, you have to love them. They rule. Price is right and they are very nice and friendly. I don't know if they will let you work on the car... I am lucky. I use to be a mechanic in 87 - 89. Not on Porsche, but know how to spin a wrench.

So Mike and I have become more friends than just mechanic.

His shop is very good and friendly and trust me, he likes to do thing right. Which is what I like. You know when your mechanic saids that you should do something and that line, "If I were you...." Well Mike does it and said, "By the way when I was doing this, I changed that, because this was wrong." When I ask him, how much, he saids, don't worry about it, I had to remove it anyway because..... He might charge for the part.

If your ever in the area, give him a call. He loves to see 930's along with all Porsches.

Rob
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1985 Euro Red Carrera Coupe."SOLD",1985 White Targa Carrera. "SOLD",1977 Yellow 930. "SOLD",1991 Black 964 C4. "SOLD",2002 Silver 996 C4 Cab "SOLD",
2001 Polar Silver 996 twin Turbo
Old 10-13-2009, 07:47 PM
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Update

I should have updated this thread awhile ago. The car is done. The whole popping and bucking was two fuel lines crossed. Once we put the gauges on they saw that the fuel pressure was at about 98 PSI. So they figured it out and changed the lines and retuned and remix fuel/air ratio and the car is a pleasure to drive. '

I've only put on about 100 miles.

One question. Is there a way to reduce the turbo lag? Would a larger intercooler help that. I have a K27 and I did put a stock intercooler on it. I know for that size turbo a larger intercooler should be on it. But money was tight after the rebuild and I think that any intercooler is better than none.

Any help would be great.

Robert
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1985 Euro Red Carrera Coupe."SOLD",1985 White Targa Carrera. "SOLD",1977 Yellow 930. "SOLD",1991 Black 964 C4. "SOLD",2002 Silver 996 C4 Cab "SOLD",
2001 Polar Silver 996 twin Turbo
Old 11-04-2009, 08:58 PM
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What muffler are you running? I always thought K27s were just laggy until we swapped out a Monty muffler for a Rarely L8 on my friends 930, boost comes on a good 1000rpm earlier now. The cheap test would be to try out a zork and see if that brings boost on quickly, if it does then get a good straight through muffler. Cams will also effect it along with the type of K27 you have, you could also then go to a Garret or Precision BB Turbo.
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:04 PM
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A brown 3 liter turbo? Sounds like my dream 930! Awesome buy!

I would definitely repaint it, but unless you want it cost more than you'd think, you'd be well served disassembling the car yourself. If you handle the disassembly and assembly yourself, $5K should get it done to perfect.

Time to find some 15" Fuchs!
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by occb2 View Post
..... The rear sway bar links had to be changed....
Rob
Can you elaborate in the rear (anti) sway bar drop link change?
I also want to get rid of the crappy 914 plastic cups that secure it to the control arm peg.
thanks
Bill K
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:55 AM
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Sorry for the delay in answering, but I have been at work for the last few weeks and it was crazy. I am on vacation now and can answer the questions.

Kenikh, I will repaint the car. Just after dropping all the cash I just did, I have to let the bank account rebuild instead of my car. LOL. The prices that I have got to do my car if I strip it down is about $2000 dollars more that the $5000 mark. It will cost around $7000 to do the car. That would be to blast to the metal, and then prime and paint to the orig. Porsche color. I think I will do it next year over the winter.

Bkreigsr, I have a Weltmeister rear (anti) sway bar, so it was as easy as ordering the new ends and replacing them. Big difference. When I was turning I would hear a small knock noise in the rear. Gone.

I also changed a lot of the interior. I went to all black but I left the dash and the top part of the doors and the top part of the interior quarters tan. So the doors are all black but the top strip and same as the quarters are all black but the tops.

I also switched my quarter windows to full sealed units. They were way to loud with wind noise. It was driving me crazy. Plus the full sealed quarter windows look so much nicer inside. The thick rubber seal covers a lot of the space that the pop out ones leave. Cleaner look.

I also put the ashtray in. I went to WEEKEND RIDES in PA. and got the whole ashtray with the bracket cut out from a 85 porsche 911. I drilled the rivets out and then didi the same in the car. Then pop riveted the new one in. I had to get all black knee guards and replaced those. So the interior of the car is now complete.

I will have to take some pics and post them of the complete interior. I like it better than any 930 that I have seen. It looks great.

Last but not least. I called north hollywood gauges and had them make me a white faced boost gauge that replaced my clock. They told me that they will powder coat the trim to white like the gauges are now on my car also. Great guys.

Have a great new years and keep the Porsches alive.......
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2001 Polar Silver 996 twin Turbo
Old 12-31-2009, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by occb2 View Post
... They made the adjustments and it runs beautifully. Still at around 32-3300 RPMs it would starve for fuel. ..

Rob
This sounds like what might happen if the WUR enrichment circuit might not be being triggered as that is about when target boost is being reached.

Would check the source of the vac line and make sure it has not been hooked up to one of the ported vac connections at the TB. Put a vac gauge on it and make sure it is hot all the time when the throttle is opened and closed.

If it is a 76/77 WUR it is triggered with loss of intake vac so if it dose not have vac it would go rich and you might have adjusted around it and not get the fuel you need on boost. If a later WUR is is triggered with about 5 psi of boost. Your guy should know this if he is testing them (check the heads system and control pressures with CIS gauges).

Did not read the earlier posts closely so not sure it this has been fixed.
Old 12-31-2009, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by occb2 View Post
........................edited to save space.................
One question. Is there a way to reduce the turbo lag? Would a larger intercooler help that. I have a K27 and I did put a stock intercooler on it. I know for that size turbo a larger intercooler should be on it. But money was tight after the rebuild and I think that any intercooler is better than none.

Any help would be great.

Robert
What type of lag are you experiencing? What speed (MPH), what gear(3rd, 4th) and what RPM do you start registering boost? Most everyone has seen an improvement simply by going to a lower restrictive muffler. Do you still have the factory muffler?
With the K-27(7200's), people begin to see onset of boost in the 3000-3200RPM range with headers and low restriction muffler.
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 12-31-2009, 12:24 PM
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There are ways to reduce turbo lag or the perception of it.

Going EFI with no restriction before the turbo being the best.

Lowest back pressure possible after the turbo is a biggie.

Lower rear diff or gear ratios.

More aggressive ignition timing.

More ideal AFR's.

Converting to a vacuum sensing WUR to alow the metering plate to move faster.

Going to an anti lag style BOV.

More compression.

Twin plugs.

Less clutch mass.

Lower volume exhaust primary volume (B&B style).

More aggressive cams (SC?).

A shot of NOX at the right time.

Turbo with a larger compressor section for earlier boost onset.

A ball bearing turbo.

A turbo with smaller hot section (boost at idle is possible).

...
Old 12-31-2009, 01:37 PM
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Fine

The car is fine now. I drove it a few days ago. It had sat for two weeks due to snow. We had a few days of rain and weather in the 40's and all the snow went away. But it snowed the last two days here in NY so the car will sit for a while.

Vacuum is fine. Engine wise, everything is fine. I went with the stock intercooler so, the lag is a bit much.

I have aftermarket SS headers and Muffler. I would say that they are BB? I don't know 100% but if not BB it is modeled after it.

Car sound great and boost comes on at around 3200 RPM, but pulls like a bat out of hell at 4000-6500 RPM.

Very fun car to drive.

In fact, after sitting for weeks, I and mind it, it is in the 20's -30's in NY, I went to the garage and it started then stalled. Then I turned he key again and it started and ran great. I think that is great for a car that is 32 years old. LOL. Me being 39 years old, I don't want to start after the second attempt. LOL

Anyway. Love the car. It will be inside the garage for the rest of the winter. Next year. The New list of things to do to the car is:

1)Brakes, I have to upgrade to the turbo brakes. The Carrera S calps have to go.

2) Intercooler, I might go to a long neck. Or just a nice upgrade for the short neck stock type.

3)Wideband set up. Thinking of doing the "INYOURFACE" gauges TACH/Wideband set up. But no matter what, I will be doing a wideband in the car.

Anyway. Have a great New Year.

Robert
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2001 Polar Silver 996 twin Turbo
Old 01-01-2010, 07:05 AM
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Robert,
Thanks and Happy New Year! A more efficient intercooler is going to improve your HP numbers because its more efficient in delivering a denser charge, but it won't improve your turbo spool up numbers in any discernible degree.

1.) More efficient headers, like RarlyL8's latest creation, will help.
2.) More modern Turbocharger i.e. Garrett GT35
3.) "SC" like cam grinds will deliver more low end HP, which will provide higher EGT's and higher gas velocities at the lower revs....the food of turbochargers.
4.) More efficient IC to cool higher boost pressures.

That's more than $5K of mods, but you get the idea.

After all that, you are only looking at lowering boost onset about 400-500RPM.

I like your idea of focusing on the brakes first. Those early 930 brakes were totally inadequate.
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P

Last edited by WERK I; 01-01-2010 at 07:24 AM..
Old 01-01-2010, 07:21 AM
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