Pelican Parts Forums

Pelican Parts Forums (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/)
-   911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/)
-   -   1977 Porsche 930 Turbo (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/492239-1977-porsche-930-turbo.html)

occb2 08-16-2009 07:29 PM

1977 Porsche 930 Turbo
 
Hi all. I've been a long time reader. I just picked up a 1977 930. I'm going to be in it for the long haul. I always wanted a 930 and this was one that was local and after a body inspection, was solid no rust car. Rebuilt 930 trans, and an engine that was rebuilt 10 years ago. Then the car had sat for a while. It needs a good going over and is at Mtech in New Rochelle NY right now.

The car was orig. brown. It has since been painted yellow. The prior owner put a RS 3.6 tail and front spoiler. The interior is in terrible shape. I am gutting it over the next two weeks. Got most of the parts already.

Questions. How much would a repaint / bring back to orig. color? It was a chocolate brown color. Trunk bay is that color.

How can I find out how many miles the car has?

I brought the car after test driving it. It pulled like a champ. I looked under the car for oil leaks. It had some seepage. I drove it for 30 mins. Brought it to temp. Checked the 930 trans. No grind in any gear. In and out of gear very nice. Boost has a lag but every thing I read show that to be normal.

The day I brought it. Drove it home. About 40 miles. Got gas. Started right up. Went home parked it.

Next morning pulled it out of the garage and it had about two or three drops. Started right up. Drove it to New Rochelle to Mtech. Left it idling. It stalled. Then did not want to start.

We got it started. Took it for a test drive. It stalled. We got it started again and then brought it to his shop.

To me it seems to be the Fuel Accumulator. He said that he is going to check the whole fuel system, pressure and everything.

We did a full inspection and found that the started had caught fire in the past. You can see from soot in the area behind the starter.

I will be putting new tires. The ones on it are dry rot. New struts and shocks and bushings.

Engine and trans will be pulled and resealed. The Trans was just done. It seems that they replaced the syncros and did not put new gaskets. Because from driving it. It now leaves about a three inch spot of fluid on the ground, of gear oil.

I am going to do a full service, valves, spark plugs, cap, rotor, wires, fuel, oil filters.

Is there anything else I need to worry about?

Oh It has after market SS headers with heat and an upgraded K27 turbo and muffler. Should I put a intercooler in it?

It has BBS rims that have been painted yellow. Why?

I have always wanted a 930 and I am very excited.

If anyone knows any history on this car, let me know. If you recognize the car let me know.

The history I was told was that the car was re-done by the prior owner. He rebuilt the engine and parked it. He moved and left it in a garage. Years later he couldn't get it started and traded it to a shop in Nyack NY for another Porsche. He traded it for $5000.

They got it started and put some interior stuff in it and sold it to a car dealer in Middletown NY for $13500.

They ended up bringing it back for a turbo issue. Then for a Tranny rebuild. I have the receipts for that.

Now the car dealer owed another dealer lots of cash. He gave him 4 cars. One which is this one. I saw it on Criegslist and took my 1985 targa to see it.

The guy never sold a Porsche and seeing that it needed help, offered him my 85 Targa and $1000 dollars. He took it and now I have it.

Any help will be great. Anyone who has owned one of these cars let me know what to watch out for.

One more question. What is Detonation? I was driving up a mountain in third gear. I heard tapping, like a spark knock. It that it? It isn't loud. It just like what I had in my Saturn which was spark knock. I did fill the tank with 93 from Sunoco.

Robert

occb2 08-16-2009 07:39 PM

Pics
 
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250476591.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250476616.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250476628.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250476643.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250476655.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250476670.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250476685.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250476701.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250476716.jpg

jwasbury 08-17-2009 12:14 PM

Welcome to 930.

That car has been showing up on Craigslist for a while now. It looks like it can use some TLC, and you're going to be giving it. From the pictures I noticed rust on some of the intake components of the engine, which is sign that the car spent a good deal of time outside.

Does the boost gauge work? I looks pegged to the right in the photo of the dash...that's not where they normally sit. You asked about detonation. The sound you described could be detonation. Verify that you are not overboosting. Factory setting on that car was 0.8 bar, and going over that is not recommended, especially without an intercooler. Verify timing is set correctly, and if you can, check the AFRs on boost to make sure your mixture is not too lean.

beepbeep 08-17-2009 01:27 PM

If car was sitting for a long time, there is a chance that CIS is gummed up. That's a bad thing as AFR's will be all over the place. It will be hard to start and might go lean on boost. going lean on boost is particularly nasty as it provokes detonation which shatters compression rings into pieces (which isn't immediately obvious).

But if "detonation" you heard was rythmic tapping sound then it probably wasn't knocking... more likely loose valve or exhaust leak. Knock sounds more like BB rolling in a barrel.

But to be sure, don't drive car on boost until CIS is checked proper and AFR's are good. Do compression & leakdown tests, pull valvecovers and inspect the studs, test CIS cold/warm and system pressure and check phenolic intake stacks for leaks. Also, verify boost pressure with manometer to make sure engine isn't overboosting (your boost pressure sender seems to be disconnected, as gauge is pegged.
). Intercooler is always a good thing, but you can install it later. Don't boost it past 0.8 bar until you are sure rest of engine is healthy.


Good luck and keep us posted!

/G

pkracer21j 08-17-2009 02:20 PM

Welcome to the sickness....bring a blank check.:D
unless your going to restore it to stock, I'd throw an intercooler on there first thing. You'll love the early 3.0 motor once you get it sorted. they rev faster, hit harder, and can handle higher boost pressure a little bit better then the later 3.3 cars. btw, are you sure you want to go back to brown??? yellows not too bad of a color.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250543892.jpg

occb2 08-19-2009 06:29 PM

Thanks
 
Thanks all. I haven't had a chance to reply. I have been stripping the car down. I'll post pics.

Yesterday I we pulled the engine and trans. Lots of up grades were done. A k27 turbo along with SS headers w/heat. It has an aluminum pressure plate and a performance flywheel. Clutch looks brand new. Maybe when they rebuilt it the did the clutch. Bad thing is that this case came with a LSD. It is not there. I have to contact the place in Nyack that did the 930 trans. Also they changed all the syncros so the trans shifts great. The butt heads didn't change the seals so it was dripping out the gear oil.

Engine ran strong. CIS is gummed up. It is going to be rebuilt.

I am going to put an intercooler. Don't know it it will happen over the next few weeks. Maybe in the winter. I am running out of money fast.

The main rear seal is leaking and it is being changed. Oil return tubes were leaking. They are being changed. I have to take off the air intake manifold. It seems mice/squirrels got in there. There are nuts and crap in there.

Boost sensor was bad. Replace it.

Valves, valve cover gaskets, Coil, plugs, cap, rotor, are getting done.

It seems that there is a problem that I am being told is normal for 930's. In the rear cross member that the rear struts go on to start to separate at the weld point. Well it has started in my car, so Mike at Mtech has a bracket that he makes and will weld the area that is separating and then weld a bracket on. Since the engine and trans are out. Its an easy job.

Great news is not rust what so ever. Rockers all look great. Floor boards inside and out great. Trunk, great. It has electrical problems. The two lights, oil pressure and alt light don't work. I have to find out why. No radio. Or wires. They had this big ass unit that took up the back seat. I ripped it out. It will be going up on ebay along with the seats.

I got two seats that match the interior in almost new condition. I was very lucky. Again Mike at Mtech in New Rochelle had them in stock. Great price.

So today I ripped out the interior. Man that was fun. Cleaned it all up. In a few days I will be putting in a sound system and then putting the new rugs. I ordered Charcoal gray RSR rugs. I want a two tone tan/black like the dash, inside the car.

I ordered new tires, front struts and rear shocks.

I also got the Fabspeed air intake upgrade.

I have a question. Brakes. They are the Carrera S brakes on the car. Are they OK for this car? Do I need to upgrade to the Turbo brakes or can these do for now?

Thanks all help is appreciated .

Robert

occb2 08-19-2009 06:54 PM

Pics
 
Here are some pics. The stuff on the inside is not rust. It is the bottom of the carpet and glue.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733066.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733088.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733108.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733128.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733148.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733175.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733198.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733221.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733245.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733269.jpg

pkracer21j 08-19-2009 06:56 PM

We are the lucky bunch with the carrera s brakes. they work fine for street use and backroad storming with good fluid, and good pads. forget about putting the car on the track with them. good fluid and good pads, and good cooling will net you about 3 laps before the pedals to the floor. on the upside you get really good at pitching the car in and saving it. lol

occb2 08-19-2009 06:59 PM

More
 
More picshttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733368.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733393.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733412.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733447.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733469.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733502.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733529.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733547.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733567.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733591.jpg

occb2 08-19-2009 07:07 PM

more
 
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733709.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733745.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733765.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733784.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733803.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733833.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733861.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733881.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733900.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1250733922.jpg

WPOZZZ 08-19-2009 10:07 PM

You know, since it is stripped down that much, you should repaint it at the same time. Just take off the bumpers/lights/valences/rest of the glass and you're good to go.

beepbeep 08-20-2009 12:28 AM

You are working quickly, I see!

S brakes are light but not sufficient with turbo engine. Sell them to some SC guy (they are aluminium so they are light and thus more in demand than iron ones) and get yourself Big Reds or 930 brakes. Chances are that Big Reds are cheaper as 930 are not being produced any more.

Regarding LSD: open the side plate and check which diff is there. You might have severely worn LSD that acts as open. In that case, just re-pack it with new plates.

It's hard to see from the pic, but is wastegate vent (top) connected to some other hose?

occb2 08-20-2009 06:22 PM

The wastegate vent? Is that the pipe coming out the side. I'll tell you that pops a lot. When I decelerate, it pops like hell. I was told that I could put a muffler on it. I was also told that the fact that it has headers it will continue to do that with or with out a muffler.

The brakes will have to wait for now. I dumped a lot of cash this week on the car.

jwasbury 08-20-2009 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by occb2 (Post 4848161)
The wastegate vent? Is that the pipe coming out the side.

The vent is the pipe going to the top of the wastegate. It normally is just open to atmosphere. The pipe on the side is the boost signal. In the photo it does look sort of like the vent is attached to something, but that could just be the angle of the photo. I also think that some boost controllers tap into the wastegate vent, and you may have one of them in there, or the remnants of one.

onboost 08-22-2009 02:11 PM

Robert..

I sent you a PM and an email..

Good luck with the project and welcome to the Dark Side!

Thx

occb2 08-22-2009 05:40 PM

Hi. Onboost, I sent a reply. The waistgate vent is not connected to anything. I went today to check it out. Its a small pipe and it vents up with nothing at the end. I got my seats today. They came out like new. The only problem is that the dash and doors are 30 years old so they are a bit lighter than the seats. I will post pics on Monday of the seats.

Robert

occb2 08-30-2009 07:43 AM

Broken Head Studs
 
Well the job just got a lot more expensive. Me and the mechanic who's name is Mike. Started on the engine yesterday. I had got an intake off of a 930 3.3 and a stock intercooler along with the throttle body. While stripping the engine apart to do the work, Mike thought, lets do the valves while its out of the car.

He open the first set of intake valves and (5) of the head studs were broken. Just laying there. 4 came right out. The other one is stuck all the way at the end. Its moving freely but the rocker is blocking it from coming out.

The exhaust side was fine. The other side, only one was broken.

Now from everything I have seen and read....I should have had a massive oil leak. This car did not have one. Before I brought the car, I was under it. It had seepage but not soaked with oil.

The other thing is that on the test drive. Which was about an 1/2 hr long. I drove it hard, soft, and through all gears. No problems. Didn't feel any exhaust leaks. Or lost of compression.

Even the next day when I drove it down to the shop, which is about 70 miles away. Car drove strong. At idle the valves were not tapping like crazy.

Anyway. So now the engine is getting a full top end rebuilt. So needless to say the car should be great now. LOL.

I brought this car as a project car so I have no complaints. The car WILL be a great 930.

Oh I also got the full carpet kit this week. The interior is all back from the reupholster company. Man do the seats look great. I can't wait for this car to get done.

I have a question. I do have the K27. I think that due to the fact that the 3.0 was non intercooled, the head studs snapped due to the pressure of the larger turbo. What do you think.

Right now I will have the stock intercooler running. Can't really buy another one right now. But I will when the cash starts to build up again. I'm in about $10,000 in the stuff I did already so I have to wait for a while.

I will be posting pics of the engine brake down later today.

That goes to show you that people can just make up receipts. There is no way this engine was rebuilt 10 years ago and sat. One thing I did see is that some of the head bolts were already changed. Those that it was changed to seems to be the ones that are snapped. Most of them that is. At least I know who redid the transmission so I KNOW that was done. They are a friend of Mike and they said that the car did not have a LSD when they got it and that they changed all the sycros and a new clutch.

Robert

occb2 08-30-2009 08:51 AM

pics
 
Here are some pics.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251647240.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251647257.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251647278.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251647308.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251647330.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251647359.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251647383.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251647404.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251647426.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251647451.jpg

spence88mph 08-30-2009 11:55 AM

you're really movin fast, great stuff! look forward to seeing the new interior.

beepbeep 08-30-2009 01:55 PM

I doubt that studs snapped because of larger turbo. As long as you don't overboost, larger turbo is gentler then small one as it doesn't produce as much heat.

Have you checked piston rings? Any in pieces?


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:16 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website


DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.