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Hey there John,
Simply looking at your pictures, it appears that at least 1 end plate looks to have been dowel pinned to the main housing. Were all the end plates & drive side plate doweled to the main housing?

The reason I ask, is that the picture showing the 1 shaft end has no heat discoloration on either the shaft or the aluminum housing. One would think that if the bearing failed it would have generated enough heat to leave a tell-tail sign.

My gut says the housing might have squirmed between the end plates, and this caused the contact and subsequent disaster.

Most superchargers run pretty tight clearances between lobes & housing, and lobe to lobe. So it does not take much misalignment to cause carnage, spinning 10k does not help either.

In most American V8 super charger applications, the super charger is way oversize (i.e. 4-71, 6-71, 8-71) and thus run at rpm's less than crank speed.

Best of luck with the manufacturer, kinda too bad that they now have the dead unit. Does not give you much in the way of bargaining power.

Mark
Old 10-22-2009, 01:41 PM
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I also have some experience with superchargers.

Certainly not to point any fingers, but did the manufacturer "suggest" the damage may have precipitated from ingesting weld slag from the fabricated intake manifolding?
Old 10-22-2009, 02:10 PM
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The Miata community has been using blowers for quite a while to get more power. The most successful kits have been Eaton based. There have been a few Autorotor and Lysholm kits, but they haven't been as popular. Many pro/con threads out there. Thoughts about why the Lysholms aren't as successful have suggested cost, availability, sensitivity to heat and very tight tolerances. Most think the Eatons are a little less efficient, but have better manufacturer warranty support. That being said there are a few folks that have been running Lysholms for several years without problems. If you're interested, here's a link to one of the comparison threads: twin screw versus mp62 - MX-5 Miata Forum
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:22 PM
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Hi Guys,
Well, I'm interested in your opinions about what the manufacturer is claiming...

The Swedes took the unit apart and couldnt find any foreign objects. They agreed that the lubrication oil was in new condition and proper level. They had no issue with the mounting system.

However they admit no fault and refuse any warranty. They claim "pressure waves and intertia" are at work from sudden decelleration and an improper bypass installation.

I have datalogs which show I wasnt backing off when it died, and that the bypass valve was installed and venting to atmosphere (they claim it should have been venting behind the throttle plate however provided no documentation requiring such.)

I have voiced my disagreement that there could be no "pressure wave" since 1. the bypass was venting, 2. such a massive "pressure wave" capable of deflecting the rotors would have first exploded the intercooler or manifolds and 3. my datalogs show I wasnt backing off the throttle so what pressure wave are we talking about?

I'd be interested in other opinions or experiences.

Thanks
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:27 PM
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Well all I can say is that, all American roots style hot rod V8 super charger applications, have a "to atmosphere" pop off plate. There is not 1 blown American V8 hot rod that has a recirculation valve in the system.
Sure new modern factory supercharged cars might have them in place, in order to help smooth throttle inputs, but that's all it is doing is smoothing transitions and aiding emissions. It is not there to prevent "pressure waves" from fragging the blower!
If a blower housing can not handle backpressure that is equall to it's intended output, then what good is it? I call BS on this excuse!
My .02 worth
Mark
Old 11-19-2009, 03:51 PM
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Sounds any excuse in a storm I call bull on the excuse. Are you going to have any recourse and do they have the blower? I would request they send your property back to you if they do.
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Old 11-19-2009, 05:23 PM
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B.S.

Most roots type blowers have been relegated to industrial applications.

I'd tell the Swedes they should stop selling theirs for performance cars. Instead they should go to their local sewage treatment plant where theirs may work out aerating the shi………!

Last edited by copbait73; 11-20-2009 at 06:58 AM..
Old 11-19-2009, 07:35 PM
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John,

There is no doubt that they are not holding up their end of the customer-vendor bargain. Your setup was incredibly well done and their pressure-wave excuse doesn't ring true. I don't know if you have any legal recourse, but it might be interesting to find out what their equivalent of Attorney General is. I've found some leverage in dealing with unscrupulous vendors by copying my complaint and request for correction to the highest level legal official in their home area.

Best of luck,
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Old 11-20-2009, 05:09 PM
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Thanks guys. So far the local (Melbourne) retailer has been the intermediary on the transaction, I've never spoken directly to the manufacturer. I'm putting together a portfolio of documentation that I want to present to them directly.

I have the datalogs which show I wasnt backing off the throttle.
I have pics of the entire installation.
I have datalogs from the dyno corroborating the under-boost condition.

I checked out and joined that MX-5 supercharged site, very interesting. There is a post there that mentions another case of an Autorotor dying, I'm trying to get in touch with other Autorotor owners. If anyone has references to other incidences of similar failure that would be helpful. The retailer initially said this type of failure had never happened before, but later changed their story when the "pressure wave" theory came out.

Mark or anyone else, if you have any references to other supercharged installations as you mention that vent to atmosphere that would also be very helpful.

The one thing in my favor is that the retailer did ship me a replacement unit, and now wants me to pay for it...and as they say posession is 9/10ths of the law!
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Old 11-21-2009, 01:45 PM
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Hey John,

Just search the web, there are many supercharger sites out there, mass information. Here is 1 site to get you started.

Holley Performance Weiand Products

There is also B&M, Lathum(sp?), Pro-charger, Eldelbrock(sp?), Eaton, etc.

All of these manufacturers sell complete kits for V6's-V8's, VW bugs, Honda's, Subaru's, etc.

All of the larger supercharger units (4-71,6-71, 8-71, 10-71, 14-71) have pop-off valves that vent straight to atmosphere. Most pop-off valves are located in the intake manifold, just below the supercharger housing. All of the designs are just like yours, a simple 2 lobe positive displacement supercharger.

All manufactures making this type of "blower" assembly today, are not inventing any new engineering. The first "blower" was put to work in the coal mines of England, back in the 1800's to evacuate & supply air to the mine shafts.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor, do not give up, be the "thorn in their side". Eventually they will want to pull that thorn out and get ride of it.

Mark
Old 11-21-2009, 08:55 PM
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John,

I've been following this thread since the beginning, my condolences.

Out of curiosity, did you see the same amount of material removal along the whole length of the SC, or was the majority of the damage closer to one end?
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Old 11-22-2009, 09:18 AM
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Its been too long but its back on the dyno and getting ready for the track...

The manufacturer could not explain why the supercharger failed. They verified no foreign objects, no lack of lubrication, etc. They started mumbling on about "pressure waves" or some BS but when I provided datalogs and pics of the bypass system they had no reply.

The new supercharger required modifying the intercooler bracket but everything else was pretty straightforward.

Unfortunately the pulley the retailer specified for the 'charger is too big but I've got my hands on smaller ones that should give us ~15psi.

The cold and hot-start tuning and transient throttle tuning is all done, which is great. I'm getting ~310hp at the rear wheels with ~7-8psi. Still looking for ~425hp with 15psi. We'll see on Tuesday!

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Last edited by JohnJL; 02-02-2010 at 07:36 PM..
Old 02-02-2010, 07:07 PM
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