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Which clutch for 400+ rwhp on 3.3 turbo 965

After engine modifying/rebuild i fitted a genuine equipment "sachs" clutch kit including pressure plate whilst in there...Now a few thousand miles on and just above 1 bar boost around peak torque i experiance clutch slippage back and forth!

In hindsight i maybe should have went for an uprated clutch during rebuild however as the new sachs clutch i fitted also is the same part fitted in the 4wd 993 turbo, i thought it would handle the power although obviously its running very close to the wind in what it can handle..

I know maybe in the near future i will be needing to replace and i was wondering what my best options would be for 400+ rwhp??
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"92" 964 turbo,Modified and recently rebuilt using all ARP hardware..
Purpose built fuel controller set up to acheive perfect fuel curve on CIS inj.
Old 10-12-2009, 12:16 PM
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I'm suprised it can't handle the 400rwhp. I wonder if maybe you have a small leak from the oil seal at the flywheel, getting on the disc? Just a thought since the new clutch shouldn't give you any trouble.

Other options on clutches are several. My personal favorite is the pressure plate build by Kennedy Engineered Products. They have three different stage levels available. I run with a Stage 1 Kennedy and a Sachs disc, and about 370hp at the flywheel with no issues.
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Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.
Old 10-12-2009, 12:45 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Sachs Sport Clutch will support 400whp. I agree something is not right.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:17 PM
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GJF GJF is offline
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A G50 PP will support 460 ft lbs with a 930 srung hub organic disc. But there is a 8mm and a 9mm disc. They both look the same except the 1mm....... Could be a 8mm disc with a 9mm PP possibly?
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:49 PM
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OFF THE BOOST PIPE NOW...
 
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I used the Sachs clutch after my rebulld and it started slipping soon after. Adjusted the clutch and it would work for a very short period. Went to a KEP Stage 2 and it's been good since.
Old 10-12-2009, 04:05 PM
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Turbo Hooligan
 
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Kennedy stage 4 or whatever their highest street disc is...supports my abusing.
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Old 10-12-2009, 04:22 PM
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Another vote for Kennedy.
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Old 10-13-2009, 04:00 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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What is the max torque/HP that Sachs will hold? There is a huge difference between 400WHP and 500whp.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 10-13-2009, 04:05 AM
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If I were having a problem with a clutch holding HP, I beleive I would get in touch with Bello either direct or through Juan here on our host site as Eddie has been through all of the problems with holding a large amount of HP.
Old 10-13-2009, 05:21 AM
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Problem with the KEP solution is, as I understand it, there is no application for the G50 format. The 965 uses the same clutch format as the 964, as well as the 993 and 993tt, BUT with the CIS three-tooth reluctor ring. Now in my rummaging at Parts Heaven I discovered that you can knock the pressed-on reluctor ring off your 965 DMFW and put it on any G50 DMFW. So any G50 format clutch might just work. One popular 965 solution is Patrick Motorsports' LWFW, which I believe follows the Carrera RS LWFW format, which requires a different pressure plate and drive plate. That kit was prohibitively expensive for me.
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:19 AM
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My boost started to vary up over 1.05-1.1 bar on my gauge at around 4k revs and then the clutch would slip!

Car has over 400rwhp at just less than 1 bar so maybe 1.1 bar may be nearer 415+rwhp and then i have slippage on a sachs 964 turbo clutch after only maybe 3-4k miles

99% sure no issues with any fluid etc going on to my clutch plate causing slippage!

Another subject but this boost pressure varying i tracked it down to being a worn valve guide on my aftermarket wastegate...pressure which should have been lifting open the valve with pressure on the diaphram was leaking down past the valve stem..
I noticed this by applying very little air pressure to the wastegate and before the valve was lifting i could hear leakage through my 965 wastegate tailpipe(or dump pipe in the 930 application).

Made new st/st valve guide on my lathe(old one was mild steel and had over 0.012" thou clearance)....

New st/st one i made was reamed out to only have 0.004" thou clearance..Fitted and boost as steady as a rock now so no slippage however i reckon the clutch may be needing replaced sometime in future or i require more clamping force!

Turning new st/st valve guide




Reaming I/D of guide so closer tolerance to valve




New stainless steel guide next to old mild steel worn one which was causing boost varying issues
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SP Autobahn www.spautobahn.co.uk
Porsche inspector for Peter Morgan UK
http://www.porscheinspections.com/
"92" 964 turbo,Modified and recently rebuilt using all ARP hardware..
Purpose built fuel controller set up to acheive perfect fuel curve on CIS inj.
Old 10-13-2009, 08:56 AM
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OFF THE BOOST PIPE NOW...
 
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You have your own lathe? I would settle for a drill press!

Good work!
Old 10-13-2009, 05:31 PM
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Yeah got my own lathe in my garage still,being a "toolmaker" to trade at one stage i had numerous machines but sold the majority of them since i dont manufacture stuff as much and tend to do more Porsche work now...If i need to manufacture any components etc i just pop over to my old company i used to work for and use their equipment now
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SP Autobahn www.spautobahn.co.uk
Porsche inspector for Peter Morgan UK
http://www.porscheinspections.com/
"92" 964 turbo,Modified and recently rebuilt using all ARP hardware..
Purpose built fuel controller set up to acheive perfect fuel curve on CIS inj.

Last edited by stup; 10-14-2009 at 02:00 PM..
Old 10-14-2009, 11:56 AM
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i have a spec stage 3+ clutch and never had any problems
Old 10-18-2009, 07:57 AM
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FVD has some options for heavier pressure plates: FVD Brombacher Online Shop

Patrick Motorsports has some too:Patrick Motorsports - Clutch Covers - 3.3L six cylinder (1991-1993) 965 Parts

Kennedy Engineered Products now sells the equivalent of a Stage 2 pressure plate for the 965, good to 650 ft-lb, lighter than the Sachs pp and rebuildable.

Porsche recommends replacing the dual mass flywheel (DMFW), not resurfacing it. When that is factored in the cost between the DMFW and a lightweight flywheel package aren't much different.

I'd love to try a lightweight flywheel but there is so much in the way of conflicting opinions among people that have tried it that I'm unsure of which way to go.
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Last edited by 911nut; 11-02-2009 at 12:52 PM..
Old 10-24-2009, 07:51 AM
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