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porschesaur
 
Peter Guldan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Memphis
Posts: 130
ITB: Superior Drivability

Howdy Chaps,

...reckon the best way to answer the flat spot issue mentioned a while back in context with ITB's is this - minute two or thereabouts, full throttle pull in 4th from 1,000 to 7,300 or so. And this is on GE60's with more overlap than one would normally have in a turbo installation.

Yes, Pat's talking about welding up hats and turbo'g a set of these.


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1950 Vincent Rapide - A Red Rapide Experience -
Old 01-26-2010, 02:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #61 (permalink)
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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this is sounds sweet itb's all day long .ITB's on boost is the next step
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Old 01-26-2010, 04:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #62 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jan 2004
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Why not just put a set of shortie throttle bodies under a plastic 3.6 manifold?

Could go with factory ITB RSR throttle bodies or custom.

Protomotive has made 750hp through such a manifold with stock location TB.

I think the runners are 43mm or larger.

Having a bit of a pressurized plenum in front of the Throttle bodies should be a plus to.

This also gets the TB's closer to the intake valve than a high butterfly set up for arguably faster response.

Seems more elegant and less costly than using PMO's and having to cobble together plenums and plumbing to work with them.

However, if one needs dual injectors per hole it probably would not be the best choice.

Only would need one connection to the intercooler and ensure balanced pressure to each side.

It is just an idea.
Old 01-26-2010, 04:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #63 (permalink)
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Join Date: Nov 2005
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Mine with ITB's . I can never get them to run right..

MY 3.8 twin turbo build up. How much HP do you think?
Old 01-26-2010, 10:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #64 (permalink)
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Did you sink the ITBs before you fitted the plenum ?
Check for air leaks?
Check the settings on your MAP and you MAP senor
At what RPM will problem come on
I car is not a 911 but it is a air cooled vw with Jenvey ITBs and boost doing 400hp plus
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Last edited by bug man nrg; 01-27-2010 at 04:27 AM..
Old 01-27-2010, 04:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #65 (permalink)
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Here the sink tool to set up your ITBs
and this is my engine
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #66 (permalink)
 
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I bought my first MFI car, a 72 911T years ago. The owner sold cheap because he was told the "prohibitively expensive" MFI was defective and needed replacement. He was done with Porsches and their expensive upkeep.

I got the car home and tried a typical for the time Unisyn but immediately noticed the RPM dropped so logic said this won't work.

Working in a lab at the time I rigged up a manometer and metered stopper like the manual showed and successfully adjusted the air by-pass. I sold the car to a friend and the rig went with the car.

Another on this thread commented his ITBs needed adjusting every 1,000 miles. I found the same on my MFI (1500 miles) however it became a ritual and cost me nothing but a few minutes once a month.

I have several of the synchronizing tools above, used them on PMOs. They are better than the old Unisyn however the method of operation may have the same drawbacks as the old Unisyn when used on a Porsche TBI.
Old 01-27-2010, 06:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #67 (permalink)
porschesaur
 
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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alloy vs plastic P factory MFI ITB's

Howdy Copbait,

Drove 2 MFI cars for about 120k back in the 70’s, loved the 71E – so mechanical/raw - because it still had compression, and good ign. curve., less so the 73S, the EPA had hamstrung this setup by then, still had the intake noise but nobody home until about 3,800 when port velocity finally enabled some fuel to be used and those C6’s could start doing their job.

The MFI pump was essentially bullet proof, the weak link - bushing wear at the butterfly shaft pivots bypassing air that should have gone through the bleed screws. Result - rising idle that soon slung the distributor advance weights only making it go up further. The holes wore oval as return spring tension loaded the actuation levers bearing on one side of the bushings. It was time for new ones if your screws bottomed out and even retarded static ignition setting couldn’t get your idle down..not to mention lean throttle tip in causing backfires.

I was lucky with the 71E. Rolled up to Jim Watson’s country shop in Nashville back in 80 to hang out one Saturday afternoon, he immediately came out and gave me the old hand cut across the neck routine over the din of my sport muffler equipped machine idling at 1,400 and said this is your lucky day. We went in his shop, he stood on an old bucket and gingerly reached over his original 550RS Spyder into the rafters and pulled a dusty NOS set of blocks/linkages down. Unheard of in those days, the alloy ones wore out quickly, were expensive/generally unavailable and folks were already doing carb conversions at that point. The plastic ones in the 2.4 era were more durable, they just had the aforementioned new issues plaguing them: emissions which had knocked the raw edge of these powerplants.

Have generally used that experience as reference when viewing various ITB iterations since, preferring linkage types to ensure quality is present - but those very spendy - so the intro of a quality set of reasonably priced common shaft ITB's like PMO's really opens up alot of possibilities for the performance NA crowd.....but even more intriguing for turbo types.
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1950 Vincent Rapide - A Red Rapide Experience -
Old 01-27-2010, 10:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Guldan View Post
I was lucky with the 71E.
Where did your old 71E end up? I just bought a 71E motor with MFI (in Sportomatic configuration) out of Ohio. The guy didn't know what he had. He bought it out of a wreck 15 years ago to put in his trike. Story goes it had been rebuilt for a teenagers 911, then promptly totaled. Tearing it down the story is probably true. This is the base for another longhood engine project, Turbo 2.2E with MFI, Garrett T25VNT.
Old 01-27-2010, 01:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #69 (permalink)
porschesaur
 
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Well howdy sir,

I was presented with the oppurtunity to buy a custom order original paint kelley green 73S (complete with original steering wheel bagged in the trunk) with history for $9,500 in 82ish and sold the 71E locally the very same afternoon for $10K to an autocross champ (now that's the way to move up, no monetary pain!) who in turn sold it to a friend of mine who passed it down to his son who put a ...I'm thinking a 2.7 in it at about the 200k plus mile mark leaving , the entire 2.2L engine/trans at the shop and motoring off with no further interest in it. Somehow Pat Williams got this unit complete years ago from that shop. The motor morphed into something sporty for sure but the entire contents of the trans I rowed so enthusiastically in my yut' in my first 911 still does business to this day in Pat's personal ride below - a 68 912 converted to a lightweight 911.

As for that 73S, I'm going to post a picture to the kelley green thread here of the "remains" that hang in my shop - as a testimony to folly of personalization when studied in the rear view mirror through the unblinking eye of history. This car was ordered by a local attorney essentially as a narrow bodied 2.7RS at the same time he got a black S for the missus with absolutely every last option available, including sportomatic, trim rings on the wheel openings and sport Recaro's.

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1950 Vincent Rapide - A Red Rapide Experience -

Last edited by Peter Guldan; 01-27-2010 at 02:32 PM..
Old 01-27-2010, 02:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #70 (permalink)
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Glacier Blue, #326?
Old 01-27-2010, 06:49 PM
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porschesaur
 
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Howdy Sir,

Accentuates a SWB long hood's attributes nicely doesn't it? We just snarled around Mid Town in this car last night, it's Polar Blue used from 68-76 - pastel colors are sorta popular in these parts - what with the tan 2.6tt and now the green 3.4tt GT1 which is 49 Ford green. As a recreational painter, I'll be the first to admit weighing in heavily on any color selection discussions around here. We were at the annual Hot Rodder's Reunion and a customized 49 rumbled up and we both said that's it!

Also note my 1941 Indian Four's strong resemblance to that color as well. To keep it period correct, I researched the factory Dupont book and found a mid 30's Dusenburg color only a couple tint elements off from the 3.4TT crossed it to Glasurit and shot it in single stage PE. If you're into bikes/restorations, here's my build site.

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1950 Vincent Rapide - A Red Rapide Experience -

Last edited by Peter Guldan; 01-28-2010 at 07:07 AM..
Old 01-28-2010, 07:05 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #72 (permalink)
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ITB's on my 3.8 with other work in progress

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Old 01-30-2010, 06:49 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #73 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Guldan View Post
Howdy Sir,

Accentuates a SWB long hood's attributes nicely doesn't it? We just snarled around Mid Town in this car last night, it's Polar Blue used from 68-76
I matched it with Grabber Orange to get true Gulf Livery when I painted my son's car.




Last edited by copbait73; 01-30-2010 at 07:51 AM..
Old 01-30-2010, 07:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #74 (permalink)
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