Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 1,678
Garage
My RarlyL8 header install

I received my RarlyL8 headers and muffler setup from Brian yesterday and dove right into the removal of my stock 86 exhaust plumbing. (The nuts have been soaking in Liquid Wrench for 2 days.) Today, to my horror, I found that one of the 8mm barrel nuts was rounded out prior to my ownership. I inserted the 8mm allen and it could spin in my fingers. Figuring I'd proceed anyway, using an oxy torch to heat the barrels, I removed four of them, and managed to round one out without any help from the previous owner. I actually think my allen key itself rounded a bit from the previous four, and had I been watchful of that, I might have been able to square it by grinding it down a bit to where the shoulders were untouched.

In either case, i was in trouble from the rounded out one. I guess someone else had their hands on my girl at one time- and here I thought this was her wedding night. I spent the better part of the day trying to find a 9mm allen, which turns out to be surprisingly difficult. Tool supply, auto parts, and Sears... most sets skip the 9mm for some reason. I just got back from the home of a Snap On truck owner, and HE didn't have one, thought he could get one for me. I bought an extractor kind of socket from him that fits over the outside of the barrel nut, but when I got home I learned that it will not fit between the top of the heat exchanger and the barrel nut. So that was a waste too. SAE sets jump from 5/16ths to 3/8s, which is too smail to too big.

I'm thinking about the sawzall now, which is usually a good sign that it's time to quit for the day and check in with the boards, and let the fog of war dissipate a bit. But it appears to be my only option, unless I can eventually get a 9mm, hammer it into the two rounded out barrels, and am successful in turning them bout out. If I cut away the old exchangers, I can get at the exterior of the nuts with the extractor or some other implement.

Is there a market for stock, unmolested 86-up exchangers such that I should be concious of resale $$? Any other ideas before the metal chips are flying?
__________________
1986 930, 1969 Mach1, 2003 540 Sport, 2016 R1200RS
Old 11-28-2009, 04:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
9dreizig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Reno NV, Bay Area during most weeks,, Kids still in NH
Posts: 5,738
Send a message via AIM to 9dreizig
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxrken View Post
I I guess someone else had their hands on my girl at one time- and here I thought this was her wedding night. ]
I"m pretty sure my girl was a slut when I fell in love with her, and my tracdog was a whore who came to me without a heart....

I love them both unconditionally....

Oh and subscribing...

Just thought of something, ,what about an easy out,, Sears sells them or a variation, treat it as it were a broken off stud..
__________________
"Todd"
98 Tahoe ,2007 Saturn Vue
86 930 black and stock, 80 930 blue tracdog
91 Spec Miata (yeah I race a chick car)
"life"ll kill ya" Warren Zevon
Old 11-28-2009, 04:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Certified User
 
billjam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,981
Garage
You could quite easily make a 9mm key by grinding down a 10mm key
__________________
Bill
1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 11-28-2009, 04:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
pete3799's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Vermont
Posts: 6,286
Garage
+1 on grinding one down.
__________________
Pete
79 911SC RoW
"Tornadoes come out of frikkin nowhere. One minute everything is all sunshine and puppies the next thing you know you've got flying cows".- Stomachmonkey
Old 11-28-2009, 04:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Manassas, VA
 
lucittm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,211
Garage
Been there, done that. I resorted to using a chisel on the barrel nut to start it turning and then removed the loosened nut with vise grips one small bite at a time. This works because the stud is a fairly tight fit in the flange and it won't bang around too much.

Something to consider, the fact that the barrel nut is rounded off inside means that the PO most likely could not get it off (hence the fact you still have original heat exchangers).

This would be a good time to consider more oxy heat or even the potential of welding your now rounded allen to the nut for removal. When you get the nut off, you can cut the offending slag/nut off and end up with a shorty allen.

This is why I replaced my studs and nuts with ARP SS products. Expensive, but I sleep well at night knowing I will never have this problem. One each package of their 400-8005 and 400-8015 solved the problem for me and I have the thick flanges as you do. As a bonus, the smallish 12-point aircraft nuts even go up through the heat exchanger holes.

Good Luck,
Mark
__________________
1991 964 Polar Silver Metallic Turbo Coupe

Last edited by lucittm; 11-28-2009 at 05:32 PM..
Old 11-28-2009, 05:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
OFF THE BOOST PIPE NOW...
 
A930Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Posts: 7,157
+1 on grinding a hex key down. In fact, grind it down slowly or use a file, trial fitting it and hammer it the last bit for a super tight fit. Might want to get two of them...

The chisel method will work as well. Start at the bottom of the nut and at an angle to bite into the nut. Keep hammering away until it turns.

I used copper jam nuts on my rebuild.
Old 11-28-2009, 06:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
I would rather be driving
 
jpnovak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 7,306
Two options.

1) Sacrifice an 8mm hex key by welding it to the nut. You have OA torch. Use it. The heat from welding will help free the corrosion. Only weld at the outside edge of the hex key/barrel nut.

2) Use a dremel tool to split the nut. you should be able to cut a pie shaped wedge large enough to chisel the nut right off.

put a few other nuts back on to support the weight of the HE while doing either of these procedures.
__________________
Jamie - I can explain it to you. But I can not understand it for you.
71 911T SWT - Sun and Fun Mobile
72 911T project car. "Minne" - A tangy version of tangerine
classicautowerks.com - EFI conversion parts
Old 11-29-2009, 05:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,423
Garage
Looks like this may be a worst cast scenario install. Good to document these issues and how to work through it.
Try to avoid cutting off the exchanger as you risk damaging the oil lines/tubes among other things.
It is difficult to get to those nuts with the exchanger in place. A long shaft air chisel can be used if you can slot the barrel nut or force a small chisel bit into the rounded hex hole. Drown the area in your favorite penetrating oil.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-29-2009, 07:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
9dreizig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Reno NV, Bay Area during most weeks,, Kids still in NH
Posts: 5,738
Send a message via AIM to 9dreizig
Brian isn't NY a short drive from AL ?? Can't believe he didn't get the "assembled " version hahaha
__________________
"Todd"
98 Tahoe ,2007 Saturn Vue
86 930 black and stock, 80 930 blue tracdog
91 Spec Miata (yeah I race a chick car)
"life"ll kill ya" Warren Zevon
Old 11-29-2009, 07:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,423
Garage
The headers come as 3 pieces which make installation a LOT easier.
I'd prefer to install them myself and save folks the hassle but that isn't possible. It's a lot easier when you've done it a dozen times.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-29-2009, 10:06 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
OFF THE BOOST PIPE NOW...
 
A930Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Posts: 7,157
No updates. He must be in the garage working on it...
Old 11-29-2009, 12:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 1,678
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by A930Rocket View Post
No updates. He must be in the garage working on it...
Yep. Out of the garage and straight into the doghouse due to said hours in garage.
Quick update:
thanks to a few ideas from you all, I managed to get the two remaining barrels off. The garage smells like tortured metal and newly discovered chemical compounds from torching and quenching with Liquid Wrench.

That's the good news. The bad news is one of the studs broke off roughly even with the bottom of the flange. I will have to assess my options when I have the exchangers on the floor and can get a good look.

Next question is related to the oil tank... I removed the two bolts that retain it to the turbo, but the upper part of it just disappears up into the bowels of engine compartment. What exactly am I looking for topside, and what will I have to remove to get to it?

__________________
1986 930, 1969 Mach1, 2003 540 Sport, 2016 R1200RS
Old 11-29-2009, 02:16 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Wer bremst verliert
 
JohnJL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 4,725
The broken stud isnt a problem really until it breaks level/below the surface of the head.

As mentioned above, once you get the old headers off just spin a nut onto the broken stud if you can and weld a nut to it. Weld it and let it cool a few times to loosen up the stud, then heat it one last time and gently spin the stud our by the nut.
__________________
2007 911 Turbo - Not a toy
1985 911 Cab - Wife's toy
1982 911 3.2 Indiash Rot Track Supercharged track toy
1978 911 3.0 Lichtbau toy "Gretchen"
1971 911 Targa S backroad toy
Old 11-29-2009, 02:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
9dreizig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Reno NV, Bay Area during most weeks,, Kids still in NH
Posts: 5,738
Send a message via AIM to 9dreizig
other than the hoses and tubes that hold it to the turbo there's not anything holding it.. make sure that they are free and it should drop right down. There's a retaining clip but I don't see on the PET that that is bolted to anything..
__________________
"Todd"
98 Tahoe ,2007 Saturn Vue
86 930 black and stock, 80 930 blue tracdog
91 Spec Miata (yeah I race a chick car)
"life"ll kill ya" Warren Zevon
Old 11-29-2009, 02:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rockwall, Texas
Posts: 8,765
Hello . . . the upper "vent chamber" portion of the tank is attached to a small bracket (bracket is bolted to the engine case) via hose clamps . . . the clamps are visible in your pics (if you know what you are looking for) . . . you will be able to see this more clearly when you remove the j-pipe. You will have to remove these clamps in order to remove the tank . . .
Old 11-29-2009, 03:07 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,423
Garage
As Ron stated the hose clamps must be removed.
The breather hose is connected to the breather pipe on the top side of the engine. This is a difficult place to reach but can be done. Unhook the breather hose on the distal end and then rotate the hose clockwise / ccw several times to break the seal and pull it off.
The turbo oil tank and kit you purchased do not have this breather line so you need to cap it at the air cleaner assembly.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-29-2009, 03:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
beancounter
 
jwasbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Weehawken, NJ
Posts: 3,306
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxrken View Post
Yep. Out of the garage and straight into the doghouse due to said hours in garage.
That is too funny...only because I have been there and done that. I expect to be in the doghouse quite a bit once I begin reassembling my engine.

Good luck on the install. Looks like she is fighting you, but it will be worth it in the end. Looking forward to hearing your impressions when its finished.
__________________
Jacob
Current: 1983 911 GT4 Race Car / 1999 Spec Miata / 2000 MB SL500 / 1998 MB E300TD / 1998 BMW R1100RT / 2016 KTM Duke 690
Past: 2009 997 Turbo Cab / 1979 930
Old 11-30-2009, 01:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,423
Garage
After my latest experiences I live in the doghouse! So move over, it's full of 930 owners.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-30-2009, 04:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Automotive Monomaniac
 
Emission's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Newbury Park, CA
Posts: 4,206
Garage
Interesting... and I want RarlyL8 headers someday. Subscribed.
__________________
1986 - 930 Coupe / 2016 - BMW X5 xDrive35i / 2015 - Volkswagen Golf TDI 6MT / 2018 -Porsche 911 Carrera 7MT
Old 11-30-2009, 08:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 1,678
Garage
OK- briefly got under there again tonight. I was able to drop the still intact exhaust system as a unit (no sawzall ) so that 's a big step, and got a photo of the broken stud. That'll have to wait for another day, but it doesn't look too bad.

Next post will be NSFW-

__________________
1986 930, 1969 Mach1, 2003 540 Sport, 2016 R1200RS
Old 12-01-2009, 06:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:48 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.