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SAIGON 68
 
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My worthless 930

Just spoke with a local porsche guru. Very respected in the pca
community. Wanted advice re: Fuel leak. Mentioned that i intended to do full bay, turbo, wastegate upgrade, the right
headers, etc. To me, this will "free" the engine to make power.
Not harm or over stress it. He said that it was extremely difficult to do this and have the engine run properly. He also said that later model porsches would walk all over me anyway.
He stated that my very nice 1978 930 was worth very little, and
would be worth even less if modified. Said that a widow wanted to sell her deceased husbands pristine 1979 930. Was
very happy to get $7000.00. I believe i have seen lesser cars than mine go for over $35000.00. I really respected this man,
but after this conversation, i was more than a little confused.
Any thoughts on this whole thing? I thought i was on the right track. Thanks, jp
Old 12-09-2009, 10:06 PM
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If anyone is interested in selling their pristine 930 for 7K I'll be happy to give you 8K...

35K is a little high, unless a low mileage car, but this guy is off his rocker thinking 930s in relatively decent mechanical and cosmetic shape are worth much less than 20K (most go for more). But, you can dump so much in a 930 just to make it keep up with a 996TT (not a fan btw) that will probably cost you less. Maybe that is what he was eluding to. Even my mech who was the 930 guy back in the day does not prefer to work on my car, in his words, "it's old, dirty, and parts break when you touch them"...
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:23 PM
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Generally speaking its probably true that an unmodified 930 is going to be more valuable than a modded one. I know when I bought mine, I wanted something stock and unmolested. Now I am molesting her knowing full well that if I sell someday the market isn't going to value these mods. Solution: don't sell. I call BS on a 7k 930 though, and that a modded 930 won't run properly.

I have also found that some of these so-called experts revered by local pca organizations are jaded old codgers who no longer give a crap. I had my car serviced by someone who is continually recommended as the best. Everytime my car was serviced there, something was f_ed up. I do all my own work now. Screw 'em and enjoy your car.
Old 12-10-2009, 04:23 AM
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Amen Jake...go to a shop that worships the 930, i know of a few of them...you can't go wrong and you'll have the better car for it.
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:52 AM
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I am no longer surprised when I come across a "930 mechanic" that doesn't know anything about 930s. It is a HUGE injustice for someone in that position to both be incompetent and to give advice of any kind. I have SOOO many stories of these guys complete lack of sometimes basic mechanical knowledge in general.
I'll take all the $7000 930s you can throw my way.
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:02 AM
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Time to find another mechanic.

In my experience, being "respected" in the PCA does not make one an expert or one to accept advice from. First and foremost, I am a gearhead. I like anything with an engine. I just happen to like Porsches but I could probably be just as happy with a Camaro (Trans Am replica of course). Anyway, I don;t want to sterotype PCA members or Porsche owners, of which I am one, a lot of PCA members are pricks that think they know more than they actually do. A low PCA member number alone does not mean you deserve respect.

This guy who is respected in the local PCA sounds like he doesn't want to work on your car. Actually,it sounds like he was setting you up to "give" your car away. He would probably conveniently offer you $7500 to do you a favor. Sorry for the rant but i have seen this over and over and it pisses me off. 930s are pretty simple machines. You don;t have to look very far to find at least 10 930 owners that work/build their own cars and have had great levels of success modifying them for added performance and more enjoyment to the end user: you.

As far as it being worth less modified? Well that is a possibility. Fun costs money. If you are worried about what it will be worth in the end then you shouldn't be messing with cars. 99% of all cars depreciate.


That poor widow got screwed...and that is assuming her husbands 930 was only marginally decent.
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:21 AM
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A couple of possibilities:

1) He will attempt to convince you that your car is not worth shooting and then offer to do you a "favor" and bail you out of the money pit for $7,000

2) He likes to make cars shiny and pristine but does not care to drive them.

3) He just hates turbo's. I know a very well respected mechanic that won't work on a turbo. He just hates them. That's only his preference not a market valuation.

4) He get's a kick out of hazing people with less standing in the Porsche community.

In any case he is insane about the market value. $20,000 seems to be the bottom for a car that runs at all. People part these cars for more than that many times.

Sure, a more modern Porsche will be faster and cheaper and more convenient ... who cares? We want what we want. If we were logical about our cars we would all drive a Honda Civic or such.
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Crashed: Silver 1992 Turbo S2
Sold: '86 930 minor mods; '94 3.6 Turbo; '85 Euro 930 (3.2 Intake, Tec3r EFI, TwinPlug, Garrett Turbo, JE 8.1 Pistons, 505 rwhp)
Old 12-10-2009, 05:27 AM
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As much mods as it would take to get a 930 to perform to current 996 turbo or GT3 performance standards it is doable. Few other out of production cars could be made to do this especially after 30 + years. At the track they can post times that make most other ( even new race cars ) want to take their marbles and go home. Either this PCA guy is dishonest, out of touch or should get back on his meds.
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Last edited by voitureltd; 12-10-2009 at 07:40 AM..
Old 12-10-2009, 05:30 AM
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I went to a drivers ED hosted by the local Z06 club a few years back. Many there were running their new 505 hp Z06 that they had just paid $85k or more for. Some of those had aftermarket mods as well.

They made fun of my 1985 oil dripping 930 at the morning meeting. They said to make sure to be careful when they passed me. Few ever got the chance. If I had brought better tires, none would have come close. Try that with a 20+ year old car of any other kind.

At the end of the day they were all very impressed with the old car. Most were stunned that their new "hottest car on the block" could not keep up with my old, obsolete, 930.

PS> It was the car not the driver that impressed them. I don't drive to get really fast. I drive to get really happy.
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Kirk
Crashed: Silver 1992 Turbo S2
Sold: '86 930 minor mods; '94 3.6 Turbo; '85 Euro 930 (3.2 Intake, Tec3r EFI, TwinPlug, Garrett Turbo, JE 8.1 Pistons, 505 rwhp)
Old 12-10-2009, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRV2FST View Post

Sure, a more modern Porsche will be faster and cheaper and more convenient ... who cares? We want what we want. If we were logical about our cars we would all drive a Honda Civic or such.
Haha, throw any modern Porsche my way, I'll eat it for breakfast, DSG, TT, reworked ECU, motor work, AWD,...wasser khulers my ass...thats what we're about, that's why we formed Funf Gruppen and why I mod my car to the ultimate I can...a highly modded 930 IS WHAT GOES BUMP IN THE NIGHT...I'm the boogie man this guy needs to hit this board and get his attitude in line.
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnywishbone View Post
Just spoke with a local porsche guru. Very respected in the pca
community. Wanted advice re: Fuel leak. Mentioned that i intended to do full bay, turbo, wastegate upgrade, the right
headers, etc. To me, this will "free" the engine to make power.
Not harm or over stress it. He said that it was extremely difficult to do this and have the engine run properly. He also said that later model porsches would walk all over me anyway.
He stated that my very nice 1978 930 was worth very little, and
would be worth even less if modified. Said that a widow wanted to sell her deceased husbands pristine 1979 930. Was
very happy to get $7000.00. I believe i have seen lesser cars than mine go for over $35000.00. I really respected this man,
but after this conversation, i was more than a little confused.
Any thoughts on this whole thing? I thought i was on the right track. Thanks, jp

Typical PCA tool bag. I don't mean to be disparaging towards all PCA guys, it's just that most that i met years ago when i used to be a member had this kind of attitude. Could tell you more about what wax to use than tuning you car.
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'79 930/934 replica
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:26 AM
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Agree with Reaper's comment. Went on a recent group canyon strafing run. The pace was fairly spirited. During one stretch, I got caught up behind a 996 GT3. I wasn't too much faster than he, but he was holding me up, a bit. The 930--even my stock, unmodded one--is a quick enough car such that if someone's faster, it's likely the driver, not the car.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:36 AM
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Slight threadjack: if a widow offered you $7K for her late husband's 930, would you take it? Or would you feel like you were screwing (figuratively) the widow a bit by giving her so much less than fair market value? Would you let her know the car is likely worth quite a bit more and offer her something more "fair?" Would it depend on said widow's financial situation? Or am I just crazy?
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1987 Venetian Blue (really looks like grey) 930 Coupe
Old 12-10-2009, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper930 View Post
Haha, throw any modern Porsche my way, I'll eat it for breakfast, DSG, TT, reworked ECU, motor work, AWD,...wasser khulers my ass...thats what we're about, that's why we formed Funf Gruppen and why I mod my car to the ultimate I can...a highly modded 930 IS WHAT GOES BUMP IN THE NIGHT...I'm the boogie man this guy needs to hit this board and get his attitude in line.
You know it, I know it and someday all will come to grips that a 930 is a pretty hard car to stay near in a comparable stock or modded configuration. Sure some have more HP but most have a lot more weight and were not race bred to begin with. For a PCA member or a Porsche shop to have such disrespect for a superior Porsche model ( certainly for many years the best ) is unreal.
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Last edited by voitureltd; 12-10-2009 at 08:27 AM..
Old 12-10-2009, 07:46 AM
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+1 for all , people like him are the reason I did not re new my membership in the so called PCA. Do what makes you happy mod to the moon!!! At the end of the day it is your car not the next guy's or gal's.
Old 12-10-2009, 07:51 AM
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SAIGON 68
 
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thanks for the feedback. i will press on with by original plans. to make the changes
pelican people have been making for quite some time. i will never be able to afford a
new 911. but what i can afford is what i view as one of the most beautiful cars ever built. the pink is in my pocket. the sounds and driving sensations, plus the fact that i can actually fiddle with and maintain the vehicle gives me a great deal of satisfaction'
when i run into problems, i have you forum guys to help me out, or at least point me in the direction. i really appreciate this. thanks, jp
Old 12-10-2009, 07:56 AM
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Anytime

I gotta say you probably have the most hilarious nicknames, (not to mention biggest variety of) rides in your garage that i've seen, LOL.
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 12-10-2009, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah930 View Post
Slight threadjack: if a widow offered you $7K for her late husband's 930, would you take it? Or would you feel like you were screwing (figuratively) the widow a bit by giving her so much less than fair market value? Would you let her know the car is likely worth quite a bit more and offer her something more "fair?" Would it depend on said widow's financial situation? Or am I just crazy?
Pretty much says it all about said 'Respected' PCA d-bag. BTW, from what i've seen, to earn respect in the PCA, you never modify your car, never be late at the weekend meeting at the local coffee shop and win at least one concourse event in 10 years.
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 12-10-2009, 08:22 AM
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maybe he was just having a bad day...
Old 12-10-2009, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infraredcalvin View Post
Even my mech who was the 930 guy back in the day does not prefer to work on my car, in his words, "it's old, dirty, and parts break when you touch them"...
Ha, I don't know what he's working on these days, but I've got a number of 996 I service and the plastic coolant fittings on those things break all the time. Just wait until all these "new cars made of plastic are 20-35 yrs old like the 930!
Old 12-10-2009, 08:58 AM
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