Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
R.I.P.
 
drmatera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nicholson, Ga
Posts: 2,160
twin turbo 930...? anyone done it?

well, i've been kicking around what turbo to upgrade to. But i don't want to sacrifice spool up to make more power so i started looking at 2 small turbos. I'm not looking for 1000hp, in fact half that would be fine but with instant boost response. any body done it? care to share what turbos you used? I've been looking at stock turbos off 1.8 Audi or VW engines, they seem to support over 220hp each..

I know reaper has twins, but i think he's making slightly more power.... But how is spool up? think it's quicker than a big single?
Old 12-14-2009, 09:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Blackbird Pilot
 
Reaper930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The OC
Posts: 2,112
brother, my motor rev's like a sport bike seeing full boost at 3,400 rpm and with the custom T4's on there, she's pulling 576 rwtq by 4,400 rpm...

twins are the way to go for streetability and tons of power but be warned, the cost is exponential...so if your pocket book is willing - do it. I get 634 rwhp at 1 bar, with lower discplacement and lower CR you could probably get 550 or so at 1.2 on your 3.3
__________________
Reaper | The Outlaw 930 Hotrod Gruppe Fünf Gruppen.com | The Baddest 934/5 Parts for the 911/930 D-Zug.us
Old 12-14-2009, 10:53 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,551
Garage
Modern turbos and a fuel/spark tuning go a long way in lowering boost threshold. I've seen single turbo CIS engines hit 1bar by 2600rpm with 400whp and a threshold of 1800rpm.
Big HP is about the only reason you would need twins. Want is a different story.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 12-15-2009, 05:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Drive it like u stole it.
 
jonesb930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jupiter, FL
Posts: 530
Garage
I started down this path with my build as well. After a lot of thought and lack of time for all the r&d +fab work I decided to just stick with my single turbo. I have a set of K16's off of a 996tt + one spare (not sure if its left or right side) waiting for the build. I am running a 3.2l short stroke (3.0l Turbo with big bore cylinders) and have been told they would be a good fit. I just got to a point that I want my car back on the road and had to stop adding to the project.
__________________
____________________________
Bill Jones
Jupiter, FL
77 Euro 911 3.0 Wide Body - under construction
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rennsport/collections/72157618856489537/
Old 12-15-2009, 05:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Turbofrog
 
smurfbus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,423
What exactly does twin setup do better than one big efficient turbo that flows the same?
Maybe it will spool a bit better but it's so much more complex and expensive that it's only for those who want it all and are not tight on money. The earlier spool probably comes from optimal headers but I think Brian could make a super effective setup for a big single too.

I'm not saying I know how these setups work in a 930 but just trying to be logical. So any input welcome (I should probably stfa before commenting anything This conversation must be in the archives already )
Old 12-15-2009, 06:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
tj930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: England
Posts: 301
Think JBL's '9930' solution is probably the neatest (993tt engine in a 930)
Old 12-15-2009, 06:18 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
Turbo Hooligan
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Greensboro NC
Posts: 1,246
twin = faster spool, less lag, less heat in the charged air b/c 2 turbos are doing the work of one, high hp support, gabe can fill in the details! I'm still a lowely cis single.
__________________
www.d-zug.com
blog.d-zug.com

All these guys do is drive too fast, work on cars, chase ******* and drink.. really no fun at all...
Old 12-15-2009, 12:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
what? me worry?
 
TimT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Wantagh, NY
Posts: 6,902


__________________
who are those guys? <<< ( Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid)
Rent a GT3RS from us!! Call or e-mail.
Transportation and Track support
Rudtners Racing

'69 911 GT-5
'75 914 GT-3
Authorised Haltech seller and installer
Authorised Unichip installer
BBS wheels
Fikse wheels
Redline motors oils
Swepco
1500 hp chassis dyno
Old 12-15-2009, 12:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
R.I.P.
 
drmatera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nicholson, Ga
Posts: 2,160
dammmnnnn TimT, that looks great. what are the specs?
Old 12-15-2009, 03:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
spence88mph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,578
I've seen twins mounted by using 993TT heat exchangers, I think you have to flip the flanges on one side but can't remember also need to modify the oil tank for clearance, protomotive offer this service. There is a guy here who had twins mounted to modified SSIs too. Coolness factor skyrockets with twins!
__________________
'89 911 M491+Turbo
'89 944 Turbo
'88 928S4
'18 C63S Coupe
Old 12-15-2009, 03:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
R.I.P.
 
drmatera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nicholson, Ga
Posts: 2,160
while twins would be cool, thats not my motivation. Instant boost response is the goal
Old 12-15-2009, 03:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mppickett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Barrington, RI
Posts: 593
I agree. Tim, that is a really slick setup. What's the story?
Mike


Quote:
Originally Posted by drmatera View Post
dammmnnnn TimT, that looks great. what are the specs?
__________________
07 Audi A4 2.0T Cabriolet - Black/Black (sold)
96 993 C2 Cabriolet - Arena Red/Tan (sold)
82 911SC - 993 Turbo Cab Trib - Speed Yellow/Black (sold)
58 DKW Universal - Baby Crap Yellow/Beige (sold)
Old 12-15-2009, 04:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Blackbird Pilot
 
Reaper930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The OC
Posts: 2,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmatera View Post
while twins would be cool, thats not my motivation. Instant boost response is the goal
Then here is what you need/should strive for - you can ask Paul, Justin, Keith, Aaron...my motor revs and spools quicker and more violently than just about any other motor i've heard of (maybe andy at Speedwerks is quicker, but his car is more evil for sure) but this is the recipie from what I understand that will assist you in what you're after. Its not cheap but like anything for these beasts, you get what you pay for:
  • If you are "in there" and are thinking about P&C's, upgrade to 3.4's.
  • Lighten the fcuk out of your flywheel and get a lightweight clutch setup (but remember the quicker it revs the less friendly it is stoplight to stoplight)
  • Any rotating part of the engine you replace, ensure its with a lighter and stronger piece
  • GT2 Evo Cams for streetable power
  • Upgrade the valve springs
  • 82 lbs injectors will support up to 1,000 hp on EFI
  • MOTEC standalone EMS (you'll need something to tune this biotch with, and its the best, or else you can go with Electromotive Tech3R)
  • Turbos - now this is the important part - my turbos are a custom T3 and T4 blend that build boost with no load just off idle...so either go with something wickedly setup ($$$$$$$$$$) or talk to RarlyL8 and he can set you up with something that is 98% there without the extra $$$$$$$$$$$ on the end of it.
  • ITB's - are they needed? Nope, but throttle response is going to be other worldly in combination with the rest of the things I have going on.
  • Headers - two routes to go on this one, equal length which Rarlyl8 does quite well or 935 style that merge straight in, the first is great for low end torque and top end flow, where as the 935 style which places the turbos at the very ass of the car are good for peak power and staying in the RPM range for the track. While I'm not looking forward to losing any torque or flow, I'm going with those out of neccessity.
__________________
Reaper | The Outlaw 930 Hotrod Gruppe Fünf Gruppen.com | The Baddest 934/5 Parts for the 911/930 D-Zug.us
Old 12-15-2009, 05:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Infidel
 
JBL930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,172
Yes Tim, please spill ALL the beans on that beasty, it looks insane!

As far as my conversion goes, it wasn't easy getting the 993tt engine in the 930, i don't know whether it would have been easier to TT the 930 engine? I know the 993tt engine is easy to fit in a 964!
I'm glad i did it, the performance is great. It does require an open cheque book though, as they say you have to pay to play!
One of the main bonuses with the twin turbos is a quicker spool, and therefore much more area under the curve. This simply gets you down the road quicker, it's as simple as that.
I would love to switch to external wastegates, i really miss the snarl of the old set up, maybe one day...
__________________
Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 12-15-2009, 06:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
what? me worry?
 
TimT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Wantagh, NY
Posts: 6,902
I'll have to look up the specs.. we built that a few years ago.. then the owner ran out of dinero.. so the car is sitting on a spare lift..
__________________
who are those guys? <<< ( Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid)
Rent a GT3RS from us!! Call or e-mail.
Transportation and Track support
Rudtners Racing

'69 911 GT-5
'75 914 GT-3
Authorised Haltech seller and installer
Authorised Unichip installer
BBS wheels
Fikse wheels
Redline motors oils
Swepco
1500 hp chassis dyno
Old 12-15-2009, 06:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Infidel
 
JBL930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,172
It looks expensive
__________________
Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 12-15-2009, 06:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
copbait73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Chesterfield IN
Posts: 1,316
Garage
A single turbo gives you a distinct RPM range for useful power production. All things being equal, you can improve when the boost arrives however by doing so you will cut off power sooner and vice versa. This is a function of effective turbine efficiency. Shoving all the exhaust into one turbine, causes backpressure, that causes the narrowed power range. For years the industry considered 350 HP the limit for a single turbo of roughly 3.0” diameter rotor. It’s not by chance that Porsche moved from single to twin when planning higher HP for the 993 Turbo.

Parallel twin turbos give you a wider power range because the individual turbines will spool quicker due to lower inertia and the wastegates will open later. Unlike the numerous cobbled Custom single turbos the compressor wheel will match the turbine on each turbo and the overall effective turbine efficiency will be much better, thus lower backpressure.

Typically parallel twins are installed when the physical size of a single turbo needed for ultra high HP destroys drivability. However more modest twins matched to handle the burden of the 930 four speed and 500HP should have improved bottom end response and extended usable RPM range (top end power) and do this at a marginally lower boost level. Match like this feels more progressive and places less strain on the engine.

Of course, while not a direct apples and apples comparison there is the 993TT and that is where I’d begin. Nice used 993 and 996 units are out there, sometimes for less than $550 a pair.

A couple of weeks ago I took a chance on a used 993 turbo and when I got it it was perfectly acceptable, $39.00.
Old 12-15-2009, 07:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,062
Garage
It would be cheaper to but a 996tt and keep your 930
__________________
Lincoln Phillip
87 930 Motec EFI M600 G50/50 TurboKrafted Hell Hound.
Jeep, Chrysler, Dodge, Ram, SRT & AEV Dealer pm me for your Mopar needs.
"the 930 is THE CAR that started my PORSCHE love affair..." Magnus Walker
Old 12-15-2009, 07:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
R.I.P.
 
drmatera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nicholson, Ga
Posts: 2,160
well, the wallet isn't that deep so a 993TT engine is not an option. But sourcing a pair of "take off" turbos and building a set of shorty headers is well within my mechanical and monetary means... I know I can twin turbo my car for under $2k and the money i'll get out of my B&B headers will offset the cost even more. My main concern is improving boost response with a goal of 500hp max. I knowmy K27will only get me around 430hp and to tell you the truth i would be happy at that number, but this turbo leaves alittle to be desired in the spool up department and i would love to have some modern "turbo" technology to go along with my modern EFI

I've been looking at factory Audi A4 turbos. They seem to support around 200-220hp each and appear to be a good match to my engine and power goals...
Old 12-15-2009, 08:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,062
Garage
You are not being realistic, you will need new tuning, modify your intercooler assuming you have a larger than stock one for your efi, fuel injectors may be maxed out, etc. There are better turbos than your K27 for spool so talk to some Garrett Guys first.
Old 12-15-2009, 10:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:49 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.