Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
iamchappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Minnetonka, MN
Posts: 1,447
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by copbait73 View Post
Ok, if you look at what the factory delivered in 3.0L engines you had 180 HP N.A. and 260HP boosted to 11.8PSI. This is 6.8HP/one PSI manifold boost.

If you wish to take a 8.5:1 N.A. motor and simply lash up a turbo with little cost and some risk you should expect 210-220HP on pump gas. If you wish to start spending money to reinvent the wheel do that also. Turbos are great devices, they can give you just about any HP you wish. The F1 guys produced 15HP/CID, that equates to a 2700HP 3.0L.

See below effective compression ratio chart for suggested manifold pressure.

I dont really understand the equations, but i can assure you my 79SC 3.0 with 8.5:1 boosted at 9PSI on pump gas was putting out way more than 210-220 hp, i think a less restrictive exhaust alone brought it up well over 180.
Henry Schmidt felt the 3.0 i had at 8.5:1 at 9lbs of boost would of made close to 350hp, i wonder how he came to that theory....
.
I never had it Dyno'ed but i can tell you a Kennedy Stage 2 clutch and pressure plate couldn't hold it.

I am still running basically a SC 3.0 engine with the only modification done to it is the
930 Euro intake,intercooler, 930 oil pump, and 97mm turbo piston and cylinders with the wrist pin bushing modification for stroke using the 3.0 SC rods, twin plugged, boosting to 1bar via a K27-7200.




__________________

914 6 Turbo twinplug 3.12
87 924S
Lexus SC400
Lexus LS400

Last edited by iamchappy; 01-05-2010 at 10:35 AM..
Old 01-05-2010, 10:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
sjf911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Idaho
Posts: 5,624
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamchappy View Post
I dont really understand the equations, but i can assure you my 79SC 3.0 with 8.5:1 boosted at 9PSI on pump gas was putting out way more than 210-220 hp, i think a less restrictive exhaust alone brought it up well over 180.
Henry Schmidt felt the 3.0 i had at 8.5:1 at 9lbs of boost would of made close to 350hp, i wonder how he came to that theory....
.
I never had it Dyno'ed but i can tell you a Kennedy Stage 2 clutch and pressure plate couldn't hold it.

I am still running basically a SC 3.0 engine with the only modification done to it is the
930 Euro intake,intercooler, 930 oil pump, and 97mm turbo piston and cylinders with the wrist pin bushing modification for stroke using the 3.0 SC rods, twin plugged, boosting to 1bar via a K27-7200.




Sorry, off topic but I notice you are running a Decel valve. How is that working for you, and did you try it without?
__________________
Steve
Sapere aude
1983 3.4L 911SC turbo. Sold
Old 01-05-2010, 12:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
iamchappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Minnetonka, MN
Posts: 1,447
Garage
I dont think i am. If i am, i have not tried it without. I have thought about losing all of the warm up
regulator stuff and the vacuum valve since i have a hand throttle in the car and rarely drive it when it's cold.
__________________

914 6 Turbo twinplug 3.12
87 924S
Lexus SC400
Lexus LS400
Old 01-05-2010, 01:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
sjf911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Idaho
Posts: 5,624
Garage
It's the pancake outlined in yellow.

__________________
Steve
Sapere aude
1983 3.4L 911SC turbo. Sold
Old 01-05-2010, 02:07 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Burlington, Wisconsin
Posts: 9,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911st View Post
Could sell the SC motor for $3500 and buy a 930 motor for about $7k.

Will be a lot less work and more valuable should you sell.

You are limited to HP with your SC trans. Have seen a trans & motor for in the $8k range.

A 930 motor has the potential for being smog leagal in in Ca if done right and the same or newer year. May not matter to you.

this is another good option as well but offboost will suffer or should I say you would be fighting everything the true 930 guys are trying to eliminate. I know brian and I both run sc or carrera 915 tranny's and have had good luck as long as you don't romp on it in 1st.

Either way there are so many options I chose the route I went simply because it was not the norm.
__________________
Ben

914-6 2.4s GT tribute.
914-6werkshop.com manufacturer of 914-6, GT, Conversion parts
Old 01-05-2010, 03:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
Registered User
 
iamchappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Minnetonka, MN
Posts: 1,447
Garage
Oh, i always thought that was a vacuum limiter. Or AAV?
__________________

914 6 Turbo twinplug 3.12
87 924S
Lexus SC400
Lexus LS400

Last edited by iamchappy; 01-05-2010 at 03:47 PM..
Old 01-05-2010, 03:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
iamchappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Minnetonka, MN
Posts: 1,447
Garage
I grabbed this from the parts site, described as a decel valve?
__________________

914 6 Turbo twinplug 3.12
87 924S
Lexus SC400
Lexus LS400
Old 01-05-2010, 03:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 7,269
I think of what we are calling the Deaccel Valve on the turbo motor as a good thing. It acts as a smaller BOV to keep boost up between shifts. It also may keep a turbo from getting damaged if the BOV malfunctions.


It dose pass the air around the throttle plate slowing RPM drop between shifts which is a good thing on a turbo.

If you remove it the motor will drop in RPM's faster which some like.

In your case you probably do not need it with your large BOV. Just a note, it is not typically a good idea to vent intake air to atmosphere after it has been measured by the metering assembly. A few do so and it is not the end of the world. However, it makes for a lot of extra fuel being sent down the motor and when the BOV opens and flooding the motor. EFI motors usually totally shut down fuel with throttle lift so they can do so.

Stock BOV's on CIS cars put the air back after the metering assembly and before the turbo inducer.
Old 01-05-2010, 04:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
Metal Guru
 
911nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,511
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamchappy View Post
my 79SC 3.0 with 8.5:1 boosted at 9PSI on pump gas was putting out way more than 210-220 hp
+1
That engine is close to 210 hp in n/a form.
__________________
Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 01-05-2010, 04:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
Registered User
 
copbait73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Chesterfield IN
Posts: 1,316
Garage
The stock 3.0LSC @ 8.5:1 rating is 180HP.

Here is what the chart says, your engine running 9PSI has an effective compression ratio of 12:1. This is high for any Porsche air-cooled engine and you were in esteemed company, with only single plug, cast pistons and plastic manifold. BTW did this one fail? The problem is its fixed compression ratio.

Very impressive basically stock motor, I’d like to hear your definition of a modified motor.

Last edited by copbait73; 01-05-2010 at 07:10 PM..
Old 01-05-2010, 06:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #30 (permalink)
Registered User
 
iamchappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Minnetonka, MN
Posts: 1,447
Garage
I was using a MSD boost retard ignition and 7th injector for fuel enrichment, the engine never did fail from turbocharging but did because of an oil pump seizing do to a contaminated oil cooler i was using. Luckily this happened as i was pulling into my driveway...

Thad Suter has run his SC turbo for a very, very long time, his engine has survived and proven longevity.

I know all about the BOV releasing to atmosphere as not a good thing with CIS, but honestly i have not seen or noticed any ill effects on the performance of the engine doing so.

My over rich happens on initial boost like it does most of us.

Ok my engine is no longer stock but the case, crank, rods, cams, and heads are with the exception of twin plugging. The 930 intake, pistons and cylinders and 930 oil pump, valve springs and my SC distributer converted into twin plug are really the only added on mods certainly nothing radical.

The only thing some would consider radical is the car i choose to install it into, and i am very happy with the results.


__________________

914 6 Turbo twinplug 3.12
87 924S
Lexus SC400
Lexus LS400
Old 01-05-2010, 07:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #31 (permalink)
R.I.P.
 
drmatera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nicholson, Ga
Posts: 2,160
i wouldn't even consider using the 930 CIS system. The megasquirt / EDIS6 with a carrera intake is the better route. turbocharging an 8:5 comp motor is no problem at all.

i just pulled all the CIS and dizzy stuff off my 930 in favor of MS2/EDIS6 and have NO regrets! tell him to go for it.
Old 01-05-2010, 08:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #32 (permalink)
Metal Guru
 
911nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,511
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by copbait73 View Post
The stock 3.0LSC @ 8.5:1 rating is 180HP.
That is the factory's minimum quoted hp. All manufacturers do that for legal and p/r reasons.
__________________
Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 01-06-2010, 02:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #33 (permalink)
Registered User
 
iamchappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Minnetonka, MN
Posts: 1,447
Garage
I think the rating on the 3.0 turbo engine off boost with 6.5:1 NA is something like 130hp
__________________

914 6 Turbo twinplug 3.12
87 924S
Lexus SC400
Lexus LS400
Old 01-06-2010, 02:43 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #34 (permalink)
Happiest when Tinkering
 
gsmith660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamchappy View Post
I was using a MSD boost retard ignition and 7th injector for fuel enrichment, the engine never did fail from turbocharging but did because of an oil pump seizing do to a contaminated oil cooler i was using. Luckily this happened as i was pulling into my driveway...

Thad Suter has run his SC turbo for a very, very long time, his engine has survived and proven longevity.

I know all about the BOV releasing to atmosphere as not a good thing with CIS, but honestly i have not seen or noticed any ill effects on the performance of the engine doing so.

My over rich happens on initial boost like it does most of us.

Ok my engine is no longer stock but the case, crank, rods, cams, and heads are with the exception of twin plugging. The 930 intake, pistons and cylinders and 930 oil pump, valve springs and my SC distributer converted into twin plug are really the only added on mods certainly nothing radical.

The only thing some would consider radical is the car i choose to install it into, and i am very happy with the results.


I have that same intercooler I got it from MSDS about 21 years ago



__________________
" Porsche there is no substitute" I always liked that saying. Air cooled is the only way to go!
76 911 C.R.A.P. Gruppe #2 BIG time TURBO C.R.A.P. Bitz EFI/EDIS Now MegaSquirt 3
76 Blazer also restored by me
Old 01-06-2010, 03:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #35 (permalink)
Registered User
 
iamchappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Minnetonka, MN
Posts: 1,447
Garage
Mine i bought off Ebay it's a 1230 CFM intercooler for a Grand National that i had modified by welding the end pipes on. You cant tell by the photo, but it's pretty thick i think 4". It's possible Marty used the same type one.
__________________

914 6 Turbo twinplug 3.12
87 924S
Lexus SC400
Lexus LS400
Old 01-06-2010, 03:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #36 (permalink)
Registered User
 
iamchappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Minnetonka, MN
Posts: 1,447
Garage
A little off topic but here is a shot of Marty's 600+hp flat fan twin turbo 914
__________________

914 6 Turbo twinplug 3.12
87 924S
Lexus SC400
Lexus LS400
Old 01-06-2010, 03:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #37 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:06 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.