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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSF View Post
My wastegates are still fully closed at 3000rpm so I don't think electronic boost control is in the picture in terms of boost/torque/power capacity at 3000rpm. I hear what you are saying about cams, thanks for that input. I guess I'm more interested in trying to find out if anyone has broken the 180hp barrier (@3000rpm) with an air cooled (non-variable-cam) engine, 3.6L or smaller. Thanks.
Here's some (older) dyno data from my 91 Turbo. These are wheel hp numbers run on a dynojet as I recall. Since this run I replaced my B&B muffler with a custom Borla XR-1. For reference I will see ~14 psi at ~2500 rpm so the numbers would be a bit better then below....

Old 04-10-2010, 12:23 PM
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Jeff, Stock cams & Turbo?

Sounds like close to the same muffler build I ran on my C2T.
Old 04-10-2010, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 911st View Post
Jeff, Stock cams & Turbo?

Sounds like close to the same muffler build I ran on my C2T.
Ya...everything is stock except the exhaust.
Old 04-10-2010, 04:47 PM
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since this is an "ultimate 930 dyno thread" lets hear what the street cars are running for a clutch/pp/flywheel combo. Right now i'm running a kevlar clutch/stock pp/stock flywheel but the clutch doesn't hold in 4th gear at WOT. Considering the KEP pp as i do like the kevlar clutch disc but need more clamping force.
Old 04-11-2010, 02:52 PM
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My favorite 911 Turbo ever?

BSF -- I think this meets your target? About as much HP at 3,000rpm as a 997TT with VTG turbos, more low rpm torque than a 993 Twin Turbo -- from a simple 7.5:1 compression '94 Turbo 3.6 with EFI.

BUILD SHEET:
1994 Turbo 3.6
* B&B headers, ceramic thermal barrier coated (2200F rated)
* custom free-flow 3" stainless muffler, right side exit / wastegate exit left
* custom ball bearing Turbonetics "GTK" turbocharger (custom pre-production unit)
* B&B 1991-94 full-width intercooler (customer supplied)
* TurboKraft EFI-T camshafts -- requires notching pistons for additional valve clearance
* TurboKraft prepared cylinder heads: moderately ported & polished, niresist ringed (cylinders machined, too), twin-plugged
* port-matched & blended intake manifold
* ARP head studs & rod bolts
* RS flywheel conversion package + GT3 disc + GT2 pressure plate
TurboKraft's 1976-94 911 Turbo EFI conversion
* AEM engine management: injection + ignition + Lambda + boost control
* TurboKraft EFI Injector Blocks & Stainless Fuel Rails, -6AN braided fuel lines
* 2x Bosch triple coil packs -- distributorless ignition
* 6-channel CDI (Capacitive Discharge Ignition)

Tuned on plain west coast 91-octane "premium" oxgenated pump junk.
Ran just fine at 1.25 bar boost, no issues, even in 110F August.
Didn't have to rev to the moon, it was done by 6,000rpm.
Pulled like crazy in any gear, any rpm.
Devoured roads.
An animal.




Yellow line = 1.25bar boost, EFI
Red line = 0.9bar boost, EFI
Blue line = 1.1bar boost -- baseline with CIS injection, K27HFS, catalytic test pipe





Maybe the best single turbo -- maybe the best 911 Turbo -- I've ever built.
One of the only cars I've wanted to keep.
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Old 04-14-2010, 05:14 PM
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Here's another data point.

Canadian 1982 930 so its a ROW engine, stock except for K27-7200 and recurved distributor (which I have no detail on since the tech that did it retired). 251,000 km (155,000 miles) on the engine which had a valve job at 200,000km. Doesn't use much oil between changes, oil pressure is well within spec, and generally runs great except for a minor warm start issue which I hope the Leask WUR will take care of.



Seems to be in-line with what would be expected for a stock ROW engine with a K27-7200 though I was pleasantly surprised by the torque figures.

We had a handheld AFR gauge in the car and video'd the tach, boost and AFR together. Boost threshold is 2,100 - 2,200 rpm, with 0.8 bar at about 3,000 rpm in 4th gear. The richest it got to was 12.8 and settled at about 13.3 at max boost, so its definitely running lean. If anyone can tell me how to post the video I will do so (.avi).

I'm dropping it off tomorrow with my tech so in a few days it will have Brian's headers and muffler, tial wastegate and Leask adjustable WUR. Valves will be adjusted, timing will be set and we'll get the AFRs where they should be, then I'll post a follow up dyno run to see what I've gained.
Old 04-15-2010, 10:50 AM
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Excellent!

Look forward to a great before and after.
Old 04-15-2010, 12:53 PM
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wow, do i see 105.3kpa written in for atmospheric pressure? Best i've seen down here on a clear day is 101.5kpa. Thats horsepower weather there..

nice numbers, can't wait to hear your results
Old 04-15-2010, 01:04 PM
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It's 103.3 kPa, my writing is getting worse with age! It was a perfect day for a dyno run, hopefully I will get reasonably close conditions for the follow up.
Old 04-15-2010, 01:25 PM
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ahh hell i never could read my scribble.
Old 04-15-2010, 01:43 PM
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Old 05-26-2010, 01:11 PM
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Now for the best. This was a comparision between the 7200 hi-flow when it first came out vs. a modified cold side Kokeln street turbo. The red was the Kokeln and the blue was the hi-flow.

Old 05-27-2010, 06:41 AM
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It is great to hear from you Brent!

I remembered the HF but did not recall the Koklen.

How about the rest of the motor specs and boost level?
Old 05-27-2010, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSF View Post
My wastegates are still fully closed at 3000rpm so I don't think electronic boost control is in the picture in terms of boost/torque/power capacity at 3000rpm. I hear what you are saying about cams, thanks for that input. I guess I'm more interested in trying to find out if anyone has broken the 180hp barrier (@3000rpm) with an air cooled (non-variable-cam) engine, 3.6L or smaller. Thanks.

I think you'll only get power that early with twin turbos. Mine was around 180ish at 3000rpm with the K16/24's. It's now got 24/26's, which will obviously send me backwards early on, but should help with torque, intake temps, and top end power

Graph with the 16/24's




Haven't got it mapped yet for the bigger turbos, will post a graph when i do
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87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
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Old 05-27-2010, 07:35 AM
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The HF must be a much better turbo than the standard 7200. 432rwhp is great. Looks like the motor has a cam upgrade as it peaked around 5700rpm.
Old 05-27-2010, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSF View Post
... I guess I'm more interested in trying to find out if anyone has broken the 180hp barrier (@3000rpm) with an air cooled (non-variable-cam) engine, 3.6L or smaller. Thanks.
How about this with stock ports and cam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRobinson View Post
stock cams: stock engine, stock WUR.

Car made 247/267 stock (rear wheel HP/TQ).

Added the B&B system: 267/287rw

Raised boost to 1.0 bar via factory K27: 315/335

Tried a number of K27/TD04 Variants, 355/355 was the average, but the 60-1 SBB made a huge differennce in top-end power & spool up (torque came in like 800rpm sooner with the DBB) over the bushed 60-1 before then.

Went from the bushed 60-1 to a SBB 60-1, rwtq increased from 150rwtq @ 3k to 300rwtq @ 3k: huge streetablity increase: which is why I dismissed spending the dime on cams.
SBB means single ball bearing. It is a 91/2 C2 turbo.
Old 05-27-2010, 07:58 AM
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i thought it ment Small Block Buick which would explain the huge increase in low RPM torque
Old 05-27-2010, 08:20 AM
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I'll have another comparision next week for you. I'm swapping out my 7200 for a Bullseye S262. Dyno runs will follow
Old 05-27-2010, 08:21 AM
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For what it is worth, looked at my dyno for my 85 3.2 normally asperated and it dynoed 153 wtq and 84 whp.

If one can get 1 bar by 3000 rpm in theory one should be able to just hit 300wtq and 160 whp. A 3.6 is about 12% larger and should make that much more or only need to be at about .8 bar by 3k rpm.

It takes 313 tq to make 180hp at 3k.

Last edited by 911st; 05-27-2010 at 08:35 AM..
Old 05-27-2010, 08:32 AM
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has anyone dynoed their 930 in 4th gear insted of 3rd? The higher load would spool the turbo sooner giving a higher torque number lower in the rpm range.

in 4th gear my car makes boost in the 2400rpm range if I roll into the throttle. I'll have to get some datalogs of that and post them up.
Old 05-27-2010, 08:47 AM
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