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Old 09-29-2010, 02:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #141 (permalink)
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Just had mine back to the dyno yesterday - YouTube - Dyno Video - 10.13.10.AVI

424rwhp/363rwtq at 1 bar of boost with a catalytic converter system (makes 440 with the test pipe)

Turbokraft EFI conversion from 2005 - close to 20k miles on the system (just getting broken in!)
Stock 3.3L displacement
GT35 turbo
3.6 Turbo S cams
high flow cat exhaust
Stock intercooler

Old 10-14-2010, 08:02 AM
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With a Cat. Way cool!

Nice flat TQ curve from 4k to 6.2k. Very nice.

Any chance you know what AR your GT35 is running?
Old 10-14-2010, 08:48 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #143 (permalink)
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You don't mean a stock 930 intercooler do you?
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87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 10-14-2010, 09:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #144 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911st View Post
With a Cat. Way cool!

Nice flat TQ curve from 4k to 6.2k. Very nice.

Any chance you know what AR your GT35 is running?
Thanks! It's nice to drive right up to the emissions station and come out with my ticket for another year of fun!

I have the spec's on the turbo at home - will share later tonight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBL930 View Post
You don't mean a stock 930 intercooler do you?
A stock 964 intercooler.
The motor/turbo, with the addition of an aftermarket (full bay) intercooler and more boost, will make north of 500rwhp (520 was quoted, if I recall correctly).

The car, with the current IC, made 480rwhp at slighly higher boost levels with the straight pipe!
Old 10-14-2010, 10:06 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #145 (permalink)
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Good stuff, for a moment there i thought you were running near 500 crank hp on a stock 930 intercooler, would have been interesting!!!! Nice numbers BTW, hope you enjoy it, always nice to see a project finished. Would love to see some accel data if you ever get the chance, 60-130mph or whatever, always nice to see proper performance figures
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87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #146 (permalink)
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JBurer -- thanks for posting the dyno of your EFI C2T. It's pretty much spot-on with what we tuned it to on 01 Oct 2005!

JBL930 -- the engine is a 3.3L C2T with stock heads, 965-S cams, headers, cat+muffler, stock 965 intercooler, GT35R, and EFI. It still has the flat 930/965 Turbo intake manifold, not ported or extrude-honed.

911st -- it is GT3582R with a standard GT (3.0" outlet) turbine housing 0.82A/R and a standard "S" compressor (pictures: Garrett GT35R turbo)
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #147 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwasbury View Post
I will admit to having a hard on for pkracer's Comp Turbo CT61?...triple ceramic ball bearing sounds like a freaking lear jet.
The video sounds like most 911 Turbos I've heard fitted with a free-flowing (open) muffler and a larger ball bearing turbocharger (T61BB, GT35R, GT40R, etc...) They make that whistle when exhaust side has so little restriction.


Just a comment about this whole 60-130mph standard:
I wholly agree that's an excellent real-world comparison between cars. It's why magazines use similar tests -- forget drag racing off the line, go with a rolling start and punch it.
But it's also greatly affected by gearing, power:weight, aerodynamics, road conditions... So again, a good comparison test for different cars under similar test conditions.

But isn't the title of this thread "Ultimate 930 Dyno Thread"?
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Old 10-14-2010, 01:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #148 (permalink)
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Chis,

Thx!

What would happen if you ran the .63 AR with it? Any idea?

Did you get any exhaust pressure ratio info this time?

Why stock intake ports with EFI?

Last edited by 911st; 10-14-2010 at 03:57 PM..
Old 10-14-2010, 02:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #149 (permalink)
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911st -- we just shipped a 0.63A/R to a customer with a pretty normally modded 1987 3.3L (B&B headers, custom 3" open muffler muffler, B&B IC, 964 camshafts).
He had a K29#11, found it too lazy and got our GT35RE package with a 0.82A/R turbine. Faster spool up than his old turbo, and loved it.
But not responsive enough for his taste and how he likes to drive the car. So he just switched to the 0.63A/R turbine and he likes it even more.
I'll ask him to please quantify the change, ex: "in 3rd gear it now reaches X psi at Y rpm instead of Z rpm."

Turbine A/R comparison for you on a different car:

3.5L 930 with EFI. The prior builder had fitted EFI and a "GT3040R" (GT3082R) with a 1.06A/R turbine housing. The big housing was likely to overcome the backpressure of the too small GT30R turbine wheel.
0.8bar boost by 3500rpm (restrictive single outlet B&B muffler didn't help), peak torque at 4,750rpm, peak power at 5,700rpm.
Switched to a smaller 0.82A/R turbine housing:
0.8bar by 3,250rpm, peak torque and peak power happened at pretty much the same rpms, but a loss of 18tq and 17hp.
So a smaller A/R turbine helped response but hurt peak figures at this boost pressure.



At 17psi on 100-octane (that ECU's HIGH setting), it gave up 35tq and 21hp, and still the same . So the turbine housing becomes a restriction at higher boost where more flow is needed.



(Wish we had been allowed to switch it to a better sized turbo...)

And no, no EBP readings on either the old C2T EFI (first car we converted to AEM EFI) or that 3.5L.
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Old 10-14-2010, 05:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #150 (permalink)
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Outstanding info!!!
Old 10-14-2010, 05:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #151 (permalink)
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ps,

Most the GT30's have a 53.1mm compressor inducer. Smaller than a 7200's.

However just the GT3076R has a 57mm that is larger than a 7200.

Do you have any info on it with a 3.3 CIS 930? Seems almost sized like a Garrett equal to a K27-7006 with its larger turbine and multiple AR choices.

I wonder if it might not be a great fit for the under 380whp 930's.

Here is the two compressor maps





Last edited by 911st; 10-14-2010 at 05:57 PM..
Old 10-14-2010, 05:53 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #152 (permalink)
 
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I have the compressor (and turbine) inducer & exducer specs for the -7006 and -7200 somewhere, haven't done a side-by-side against a GT30R.

Haven't sold a GT30R to someone with a normally modded 3.3L and gotten really positive feedback. Quick spool up with a 0.82A/R, but choking up top and boost falling off. Maybe we'll get a 3.3L with CIS in the shop and someone will want to do it. If so, we'll datalog it all on the dyno.

Only comparable back-to-back I have of CIS 930s is a pair of Euro spec cars, one with a -7200 and the other with the GT35R. Those dynos have been posted before in a message about Garrett turbos.
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Old 10-14-2010, 06:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #153 (permalink)
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Big HP

Okay, so here's one for the big HP pile...

What can I say, some customer's like the crazy rush of big turbochargers, ala old-school 930s or any big power Supras. It's how he likes it and he drives it, mostly in the upper rpms, so it's perfect for his intended use.



Will re-post when done tuning with the new fuel system.
And the 109-octane.


FWIW, the Mahle cylinders grenaded at much lower boost pressures.
LNE "Nickie" cylinders rock. We use them, we sell them, we love them. Great work, Charles!
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Old 10-14-2010, 06:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #154 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
I have the compressor (and turbine) inducer & exducer specs for the -7006 and -7200 somewhere, haven't done a side-by-side against a GT30R.

...
It might be interesting to get all this info in one place including the GT35 & HF stuff.

Probably under a tittle that is easy to search.

I suspect the 7200 and 7006 have very close to the same compressor spec's. That it is the hot side that gets the extra HP. Like your example above.

I have looked at the BIGGER GT30 compressor map against the K27-7200 and they look very comparable.

However, the Big-GT30 has a larger hot side and flexibility with 3 AR's.

Oh, and the ball bearing center section. I am thinking it might be along the lines of a more modern K27-7006.
Old 10-15-2010, 08:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #155 (permalink)
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Those are some pretty impressive numbers!

It's surprising that the Porsche OEM fuel lines can support nearly 3x stock power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
Okay, so here's one for the big HP pile...

What can I say, some customer's like the crazy rush of big turbochargers, ala old-school 930s or any big power Supras. It's how he likes it and he drives it, mostly in the upper rpms, so it's perfect for his intended use.



Will re-post when done tuning with the new fuel system.
And the 109-octane.


FWIW, the Mahle cylinders grenaded at much lower boost pressures.
LNE "Nickie" cylinders rock. We use them, we sell them, we love them. Great work, Charles!
Old 10-15-2010, 08:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #156 (permalink)
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Just re-did the fuel system on that car with larger lines fitted into the stock locations. Didn't want it to look all hacked up. You can't hardly tell it's modified but for the large Aeromotive fuel filter, and the new, larger fittings at the fuel rails.
Now the engine does not lean out at 5,000rpm as it used to, but it seems we may now be at the limit of the stock Carrera fuel rails.
Still, the owner is satisfied with the results: 752rwhp / 692rwtq on 109-octane
That'll do.

It has a 4-position boost switch, and each click is good for roughly another 100hp:
91-octane West Coast oxygenated pump gas
* 10.0psi = 450rwhp / 430rwtq
* 14.7psi = 546.6hp / 503.3rwtq
VP103 race fuel -- the common high octane fuel the client can source locally
* 18.7psi = 645.5rwhp / 579.1rwtq
VP109 race fuel -- the good stuff he can get for racing
* 23.4psi= 752.2rwhp / 692.5rwtq

And believe it or not, the engine is completely smooth and okay at higher boost pressures than that.
There is no knock.
The rings are special units intended for these boost pressures (not like stock cast iron Goetze/Mahle rings).
The LNE "Nickie" cylinders can take a lot, lot more.
So while that's a shocking amount of boost to some people, it's not a worry with this engine build and that fuel octane. And when possible, we always source the same fuel a person will use. That way we know the outcome should be consistent, with no surprise differences in effective octane and chance of detonation.
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Old 11-24-2010, 03:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #157 (permalink)
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Without knock, the original Mahle cylinders can take that kind of boost easily as well.
The key word here is 'no knock'...
Old 11-25-2010, 03:07 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #158 (permalink)
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1977 3.0

Here's my '77 3.0 litre flywheel power and boost:



Engine mods are:

Autronic SM4 ECU (EFI)
7.5:1 95mm pistons
K27-7200 Turbo
Kokeln Longneck IC
964 Grind on Cams



Old 11-25-2010, 05:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #159 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beetspeed View Post
Without knock, the original Mahle cylinders can take that kind of boost easily as well.
The key word here is 'no knock'...
Absolutely. Without proper tuning, there's knock, and this:





And this:



And pistons end up looking like this:



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Old 11-29-2010, 09:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #160 (permalink)
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