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Cool 3.0 930 engine what turbo is the best

Hello people i going to upgrade my 930 euro engine, to be converting efi 3.2 intake 3.2 cylinder heads and 20/21 cams with megasquirt management edis system.

How do you think is the perfect turbo for this conbination ?

Gt35 ball bearing
gt40
k27
?????
Thanks, for all
Old 01-24-2010, 04:46 AM
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Can't say from the info you give. What boost will you run? What is the air flow through your motor going to be? What are you going to do with the motor, track or street, or combo? Do you have a header or OEM exhaust? If you have a header, what size turbo flange? I'm not familiar with those cams, but the specific cam specs would be helpful too.
Old 01-24-2010, 05:10 AM
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I do not know your cams but if they make peak Hp like stock or SC's at around 5500 to 6000rpm, any turbo that works well on a CIS 3.3 is going to work better on your EFI 3.2.

A K27-7200 is a great turbo for early boost and big response for up to about 425fwhp on an EFI car but wont pull more than about .9 bar at a 6500rpm red line as it runs out of steam and efficiency. If you are running a bump in compression and plan to keep boost at or below .8 bar it could be fun and easy to fit.

The HF's and GT 35 is going to support more HP. The GT's can be a small challenge getting the oiling right but seem to be a more modern and efficient design. An added plus of the GT's is the ability to easily change hot housings for different style of mounts and A/R's.

The 3.0 crank and rods can run safely to a higher RPM than a 3.3 so it would be fun to build a 3.2 short stroke turbo that makes HP at a higher rpm (up to 7300rpm+ red line). If that is done a larger hot side, big ports, and a cam to support it would be needed but at the expense of low end response. This strategy could make more HP than a built 3.3 if done right.

Not an expert, just my opinion.
Old 01-24-2010, 11:57 AM
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If I recall correctly a 20/21 has similar characteristics to a DC22.. you can adjust and make it work nicely with CIS..

Since you're going to EFI, I think you could get a little more aggressive..
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:48 PM
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thanks guys, for all commnets, i expect to use street, with 1 5/8 header with t3 flange, some peopla said me gt35 ball bearing is correct for this combination. webcam 20/21 comes with 258/246 and lift .485/.452 with 113 lube center. i have too 964 cams. what do you think is best for me 964 or 20/21 profiles.
Old 01-24-2010, 03:59 PM
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I am sorry, I thought it was a 3.2.

If you are a 3.0 you are about 10% smaller than a 3.3 and this will cost you at low end and bring your turbo in about 300rpm later so it could effect your turbo hot side choice.

Being EFI will off set this some.

A K27-7200 will be a pretty good turbo for a 3.0 EFI I would guess unless you are building a monster and or planning on running over 1 bar or 6800rpm.

Not an expert but 1 5/8's primary's sounds large for a 3.0 unless a race motor pulling high rpm.

I would get more input before making a decision.
Old 01-24-2010, 05:09 PM
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You should stick with 1.5" primary pipes for headers.
Turbo choice depends on specific goals. Do you want power down low, midrange or topend?
Same with cams. SC for low/mid, 964 for mid/top, 934 etc for topend.
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:26 PM
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Wo ist die Rennstrecke?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prhealy61 View Post
thanks guys, for all commnets, i expect to use street, with 1 5/8 header with t3 flange, some peopla said me gt35 ball bearing is correct for this combination. webcam 20/21 comes with 258/246 and lift .485/.452 with 113 lube center. i have too 964 cams. what do you think is best for me 964 or 20/21 profiles.
Since this is an EFI car, a ball bearing turbo will work very well for street use as you can manage spark and fuel to get the turbo up quick. You still didn't give the volume of air you expect with your cam and mods, so it's difficult to say which turbo. For sure, call Garrett's distributors for their input.

The 964 is an excellent all-around cam that will do well for you. Another option is the GT2 cam profile since you are EFI - it responds better to good EFI tuning. Build your car around the cam first, then choose everything else (it controls the volume of air through the engine).

Good luck.
Old 01-25-2010, 06:38 PM
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3.0 Turbo

For street and occasional track days, a GT30 is great. The power is almost linear with almost no discernable lag.

I put it on a few months ago and would run it forever...except that I'm putting in a 3.6tt now.

Anyone looking for a great 3.0, about 5500 miles, built??

Thanks,
RRD
Old 01-25-2010, 07:45 PM
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The 3.0 turbo has about 10% less exhaust energy than a 3.3 because it it 10% smaller and about another 2% less because of its lower compression ratio at low rpm.

However, if the stock compression is kept it can run almost 2 psi or .1 bar more boost than a 3.3 because of its lower compression ratio and stay at the same effective compression ratio. That is a 3.3 at 1 bar has about the same effective compression ratio as a 3.0 at 1.1 bar.

It also has a much better stroke and rod for increased rpm.


When you brake it down it kind of presents an interesting situation.

One can put a smaller turbo on it like a GT30 or K27-7200 with SC cams that are advanced for great drivability, full boost by 3k with the EFI, and a power band that makes peak HP at 5500rpm and starts loosing power around 6k rpm. This would also probably fit the 4 speed well.

Or go with a larger turbo like a GT 35 or HF, open up the ports, run C2 cams retarded a little or a custom cam and run 1.1 bar boost with plans to make peak HP at around 6500rpm through 7000 rpm or so. But have a fair amount of lag before with full boost around 3600rpm +/-.

Make any sense?

Last edited by 911st; 01-25-2010 at 08:23 PM..
Old 01-25-2010, 08:16 PM
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What do you know. Here is an example that just popped up on the dyno thread of what I was thinking for an EFI 3.0 going for higher rpm power than a typical 3.3 build.

Full boost at 3500 and still making HP at 7k. Most 3.3 builds make about equal TQ and HP. This thing is making a lot more HP than TQ with the right cam and the right matching goodies to support efficient operation at higher rpm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willtel View Post

Last edited by 911st; 01-26-2010 at 06:50 AM..
Old 01-26-2010, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911st View Post
The 3.0 turbo has about 10% less exhaust energy than a 3.3 because it it 10% smaller and about another 2% less because of its lower compression ratio at low rpm.


Make any sense?
You can't compare the two that way, unless everything every component is absolutely equal - starting with the cams. If they have higher lift and longer duration, it could be 25% more efficient.

Last edited by DonE; 01-26-2010 at 04:15 PM..
Old 01-26-2010, 04:10 PM
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Sorry, my assumption was if comparing equal builds except the 3.0 at stock 6.5/1 and the 3.3 at stock 7/1 compression.


The 3.0 will not have as much exhaust volume and a given boost thresh hold is probably going to be at about 10 - 12% higher RPM.

This might effect the turbo chosen. Try putting a 7006 K29 on it and it would probably dog until close to 4k rpm.

The 3.o shorter stroke and stronger rods lends its self well to making power at a higher rpm.

With out a small turbine and a bump in compression is it going not going to be able to match a similar build on a 3.3 in terms of boost response off idle.

Just a guess.
Old 01-26-2010, 04:34 PM
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I wonder, the 3.0T had 36mm exhaust ports v 34mm for the 3.3.

This might be why his builder is thinking 1 5/8's headers?

Still probably better to go with the 1.5's unless it is going to be a real monster.
Old 01-26-2010, 05:13 PM
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3.0 turbo upgrade

all comments are perfect , but what do you think when i spect to use carrera 3.2 heads with 1.5 header ?
Old 01-26-2010, 05:23 PM
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I have a 3.0, I run a comp turbo CT 61, sc330 cams, 36E 38I ports. running 1 5/8 headers and 7:1 compression. shes a screamer. there are lots of videos of her from turbopalooza on here and youtube. better turbos and cams flow more air. when you push that more air through smaller pipes all you do is create friction and heat. not good. just my opinion, my car hasnt been on a dyno but everyone whos been in it says its very strong and cannot believe its a 3.0 and it has kept up just fine with some efi builds. for what its worth.
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:29 PM
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Carrera heads w 1.5" primary's are not an issue. Small intake ports are more a CIS and normally aspirated thing.

1 5/8's sure will not hurt ones HP. It might add a little to lag. The cross over might be around 450hp but that dose not keep the 1.5's from making power to.

Just my opinion, not an expert on this.
Old 01-26-2010, 06:14 PM
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You need to be past ~450whp before 1.625" primaries begin to perform better than 1.5".
If you have ported heads, or 38mm Carrera heads as in this case, it is better to compress that air down to 1.5" (~36.5mmID) for the sake of velocity and heat, which drive the turbo. The gains from larger ports are not lost if you use a conical transition to the primary from the head. This becomes even more important as the displacement of the engine is reduced due to the effect on torque.
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:36 PM
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