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930 in-car track video

Here's a video I just compiled from a track day last summer:



To watch, I suggest you click on the "full screen" button on the lower right of the video window and make sure that "HD on" is shown on the right side. The sound is pretty good, so turn it up. I dubbed in the actual sound from this car over the opening still shots.

For those who don't know me, this car has been an obsessive project for about 10 years. It's finally "done." It's a 78 930 Euro non-sunroof coupe that weighs 2720 lb. with a full interior (though Sparco seats) and half tank of fuel. The engine in this clip was running about 500 hp at 0.8 bar. There's another map that produces 622 hp/618 tq at 1.2 bar. The engine is a 3.4 liter, twin-plug, with a DTA engine managment system, heads heavily massaged by Xtreme, custom Garrett T-66 turbo by Kevin at Ultimate Motorwerks, GT2 Evo cams, MODE headers, Extrude Honed Carrera manifolds, Borla muffler, and a huge intercooler. The clutch is a Sachs PP modified by SPEC, with a SPEC ferramic disk. The transmission is a heavily re-geared 930 with a very tall first and shorter 3rd and 4th and a Guard LSD. The suspension has 23/31 T-bars with Rebel Racing 250 lb coilovers at the rear, revalved Bilstein shocks, poly bushings, TRG swaybars, monoballs at the trailing arm pivots and strut tops, strut brace, and bump steer kit by ERP. There are two big front oil coolers. Brakes are 930 with lots of front cooling and Porferfield R4 pads. Wheels are Kinesis 9.5 and 11 by 17 with Nitto NT-01 tires.

I "designed" the build myself, and did the engine assembly and a million other tasks, but had the expert help of many fine people who know their specialties very well, including Bill DiCondini at Xtreme Cylinder Heads who did some magnificent head and porting work, Neil Harvey at Performance Developments who provided "flame rings," machining, parts, and advice, Dick Elverud who did the bottom end machining and piston prep, Kevin Matwichuk at Ultimate Motorwerks who built the turbo, Bob Holcombe who built the headers and provided advice, and Dave Capurro at C&C Automotive, who did the basic dyno tuning and setup of the EFI system.

It's a fabulous track car, but isn't super friendly on the street (primarly because of the gearing and clutch). For those who want a serious 930 for the track, but one that can be driven to/from the track, this is one way to do it.

Rob


Last edited by Rob 930; 01-25-2010 at 05:48 PM..
Old 01-25-2010, 04:43 PM
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Great video, kept me on the edge of my seat! Man, your car sounds and performs just awesome. Impressive.
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Old 01-25-2010, 05:16 PM
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Very cool!!!

Is that correct on the front T-bar bar size?
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Old 01-25-2010, 05:40 PM
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Thanks, guys. No it's a 23 mm front T-bar. I'll edit that...

Rob
Old 01-25-2010, 05:49 PM
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Are you happy with the setup?

I have 22/31 and was thinking of going 24/31 with ??? rear springs for about 50/50 street/track on Toyo or Nitto tires.
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:05 PM
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David,

Yes, I'm happy with the setup, but I don't have much of a basis for comparison because I haven't experimented much with other spring rates. I will say that it feels very good -- stable, predicatable, and surprisingly forgiving (at least in terms of the suspension). The only aspect of its performance that's the least bit spooky is the nonlinearity of the power onset. It's not lag, exactly; I don't feel that at all. It's the fact that if you give it 50% throttle, you'll get 80% torque. At corner exits, that can be a problem, so the default has to be a very conservative use of the throttle until the car is fairly straight. That's why cars like that RSA can do so well against so much power - strong N/A cars can gain an advantage at corner exit because they can build up speed after the apex with more confidence. But on a lap to lap basis, and certainly down the straights, the 930 is hard to beat. Only the most powerful N/A cars, like the new Z06, can compete in the straights. Of course, driver skill plays a huge role too; the RSA in that video is piloted by a top local driver and he's been driving and developing it for years. I do a lot of driving, but mostly in a 944, and I've only logged 6 days on the track in this car. Each day I make changes and improvements to the car and I experiment with my technique (and nerve), but it takes a while to extract maximum output from a car like this.

As for spring rates up front, I've been told that 23 mm is the absolute largest you want to go, ever, with torsion bars. The explanation I got was that the control arms themselves can't handle more spring than that -- that they may distort if the T-bar gets too stiff. I don't know if that's true or not, but if you're considering 24s, you might ask around. Also, I haven't felt the need for more front spring. As for rear springs, I ran it twice with just the 31 mm T-bars (no helpers), and I felt that with this much power I was getting squat and undesirable weight transfer that was causing the car to understeer when throttle was applied. The helpers cured that, or seemed to. Trouble is, I didn't make that change independently of other suspension adjustments (I also increased the rake when the helpers went in), so I can't really assess the improvement purely from the rear springs.

Some people think of the 930 on the track as a mean and nasty machine that will bite you at every opportunity. Though it's a bit gnarlier than lesser-powered cars, it's surprisingly docile and forgiving. Having huge tires helps this. And to drive it is a real sensation. The feedback it gives you is incredible.

Rob

Last edited by Rob 930; 01-25-2010 at 10:13 PM..
Old 01-25-2010, 07:19 PM
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Rob, Awsome video!
You said you only have six days in the car- give it some seat time and you will stomp that RSA!
That guy really was a pro in driving his car and being a 964, he's already got one up on his suspension geometry and likely has a few pounds less. I wonder if you went to a G-50/52 setup (inside of a 50/50 case...) if you would be able to close some of the gap... or simply did a few gear swaps to a 50/50. I bet that rsa has a serious close ratio box.
What does the RSA have done to the motor? Does he have ITBs? And what about his suspension?
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Old 01-25-2010, 08:21 PM
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Great video!

That camera seems real nice. What mount did you rig for it?
Old 01-25-2010, 08:31 PM
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Kris,

I don't know much about the RSA, other than it's well set up and the owner has been a long-time driver and instructor in our area. He brings it in a trailer, and has it on Hoosiers. I think it may be Moton-equipped, and the suspension has been properly tweaked and aligned. I'm not aware that it has any major engine mods, other than the exhaust doesn't sound stock. It's just a tight, well-set-up, well-driven car.

I had a passenger with me in that video, so whenever that's the case, I tend to drive at least 5% more cautiously, plus I have some extra weight. I also don't have Hoosiers; the NT-01s are very good, but they're probably a couple seconds off the pace of Hoosiers. There's no question that I'm not at the top of my game yet in that car. I can wring out a 944 S2 on that track, but it will take more time (and testicular fortitude) to optimize a lap in this car.

What I do have are the right gears. I have a 930 gearbox with four carefully chosen gears. There's no G50 that's going to be any better than this gearbox for that track. What I sacrifice is that with four gears, 1st gear is very tall, so it takes some finesse to start from a stop. But for my application, I don't care. Some people would argue that my gears are too close and that I'm spending too much time shifting. I disagree. For this application, I'm always in the power band, with no lag. And that 930 box is bulletproof and can be shifted pretty quickly.

forwheeler,

The camera is an Aiptek HD GVS model, which is very light and inexpensive ($160 or so), and it's mounted on an I/O Port mount that's clamped to a harness bar.. The internal mic is awful for this application, so I used an external mic located by the tailpipe. I also used a Raynox wide angle adapter that clips on to the lens. I have a small inverter wired into the cigarette lighter to keep the camera battery up. With an 8 Mb SD card, it can record something like 4 hours of HD video!

Rob
Old 01-25-2010, 10:10 PM
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Excellent video with great engine sound, well done.

Congratulations on your build, very impressive on the track. It got my heart racing just watching you passing just about every one out on the track.

Thanks for sharing
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:14 PM
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Rob,

I think I know you and that car from the days of C2Turbo.com, belive you (and I) were part of a proposed group buy for DTA engine managment system. Glad to see some of the old turbo heads still around and holding thier toys.

Car and video were great!

Regards,

Paul
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:33 PM
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Rob, my dear man-great stuff-but i think you need a VDO 10K tach. On many of your down shifts, the rpm needle maxed out...it bounces off the max!!!!!-the motor didn't complain-i think you got more rpms left on the upside, ie looks like it can do more than 7K rpm. Reminds me of the Skyline GTR from the very first playstation Gran Turismo...we called it the lawn mover cuz it ripped every car in a straight line!!!!!

best, Paul.
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:14 PM
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Rob,

Great video, love the sound. Watching your car come on boost is addicting, I can only imagine it's better in person. I hope to see your car in person at Pacific this summer.

John
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:47 PM
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Paul (onboost),

Thanks for identifying yourself from the old days! You never know who you're talking to on these forums. I'm sure I still have email from you back then. Yes, who here remembers the old C2turbo.com website! And then there was Stephen Kaspar's website (was it Turbo911.com?); they've all gone to the heavens of turbo sites past. I do recall my attempt to arrange a "group buy" for engine management systems. Interestingly, there were at least three people from that group who actually did buy Motec systems from one vendor, at a substantial discount. And two of us went to Dave Capurro for DTA systems with great success, but I wouldn't call it a "group buy." In retrospect, the whole concept of a "group buy" for something like that is sort of questionable. The cost of such a system is almost trivial compared to everything else that follows. And each engine build is so unique. Success really depends on the support network, the tuning, and a million other variables. I paid $1700 for the DTA box. But I have $75K in the car (not counting the car itself!). Nothing wrong with trying to optimize a price for the engine management system, but it's way more important to choose an engine management system based on more critical factors.

Paul (gilach),

Yes, I kept the revs pretty high on that run. The engine should be good for well over 7000, though I tried to observe a shift point at or below 7K. The (lack of) damping of the tach needle during downshifts makes it look like actual revs are higher than 7K, when actually, I don't think they are. The inertia of the tach needle, and the lack of damping, send the needle higher than the actual engine speed during throttle blips. It might be good if I had the tach serviced so that it doesn't look like I'm reckless with my downshifts!

John (whtknckls),

Thank you. I'll be there either in the 930 or in a much more sedate, but very satisfying white 944 S2. Come say hello. I'm an instructor for the PCA PNWR and BMW clubs.

Rob

Last edited by Rob 930; 01-27-2010 at 09:57 PM..
Old 01-27-2010, 09:55 PM
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it is so nice to see fellow 930 owners taking them to the track. Such a rarity..Now you got me drooling for spring and being able to get back out myself...It will be awhile before I upgrade mine...

Thanks for sharing...Awesome car !!
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Old 01-28-2010, 06:51 AM
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Here is a link to a few of my track days on YouTube:
79 930 turbo with stock suspension and Smart racing sways. k27S turbo, headers, and B&B intercooler.
Lots of fun on track.....very rare indeed typically may see only 1 other at a track event.
YouTube - WatkinsGlen short
YouTube - Mid Ohio DE day May2009 in 1979 Porsche 930 turbo

Enjoy,
Fred
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Old 01-28-2010, 05:18 PM
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Wow!

What rods are you running if I may ask?
Old 01-28-2010, 07:36 PM
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911st,

On the advice of one of the grand masters of turbo engines, I used stock rods, properly balanced, rebushed and resized, with ARP bolts; bearing clearances were individually measured and adjusted. Because I observe a rev limit at or very close to the factory redline, there's no need for Carillos or other aftermarket rods. If I planned on a 7800+ RPM NA motor, things might be different, but this engine runs out of steam in the mid 6K range anyway, so there was no need for that. One of the nice things about a turbo motor is that it runs at a relatively low rotational speed. All the high rpm mods that people do (like boat tailing the case and knife-edging the crank), as well high-end rods, are not necessary for an engine like this. I decided that I'd rather take the thousands spent on those mods and put them into things that really matter to this engine, like intake and head flow improvements, a top level exhaust system, proper turbocharger, and especially comprehensive tuning.

Last edited by Rob 930; 01-29-2010 at 07:51 AM..
Old 01-28-2010, 07:54 PM
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