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Rear coilovers and suspension refresh

Howdy,
First: I'd like to consider installing rear coilovers in my '89 930. I'm looking for product recommendations. I'd also like to know if anything needs to be reinforced for doing the install... and to support the weight of the car.

My goals are plain-jane... I'm not looking for anything stiffer than the OE torsion bar setup. I'm not tracking the car, and I prefer it to be comfortable because I enjoy taking it on trips.

Second: What would constitute a full refresh of the rear suspension, other than the proposed coilovers?

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Dave
Old 01-29-2010, 05:57 PM
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Dave check out Rebel racing. I am still working with Clint on a full coil-over suspension (front and rear). He is great to work with, and really knows what he is talking about. Home

Elephant Racing also makes a coil-over system for our cars and since they are also great suspension company might be worth looking into. I have not read any reviews of guys on here with their system...ELEPHANT RACING Home
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:08 PM
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Have you heard from Clint recently? I sent him an email last Friday but have not gotten a response. I know he is busy with both his business and school.
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:17 PM
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Switching to coil overs isn't going to improve the ride. But if you are going to convert I would re enforce the rear shock mounts. The main advantage of coil overs are, easier suspension set up, ride height adjustment, and spring rate change. They also respond faster than a torsion bar.

To improve your ride you should consider re-valving your shocks. I run re-valved shocks on my 930 by Smart Racing (F&R10 valving) and noticed an improved ride over stock. The next step up would be an adjustable shock, either single or double. I would go with a single adjustable for the street. The advantage of an adjustable shock is you can fine tune the shock to your driving preference.

I use the Wevo single adjustable rear shocks and the Smart Racing Fox single adjustable shocks on the front of our '75 Carrera. The Wevo shocks work with either torsion bars or coil overs. The Smart Racing fronts have remote nitrogen canisters (kind of a pain), and you also adjust the spindle height. They only work with coil overs. Another adjustable front shock set up I was looking at is by Koni. They take your Bilstein strut and convert it into an adjustable sealed shock. They quoted me $1500 for the conversion. I went with the Smart Racing for $400 more because they had the advantage of the adjustable spindle height. There are quite a few choices out there, these are the ones I'm familiar with.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:41 AM
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Thanks for the advice, guys. Oddly enough, I've decided to start with the front. I've ordered RSR front housings with the spindle raised (either 30 or 40mm, not decided yet). I'm going to use their Von "matched" inserts, and then replace the upper strut mounts with their OE style bushings.

It will be interesting to see how this works out. Hopefully good, as this was a very pricey way to go.
Old 02-01-2010, 01:05 PM
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Dave, who did you end up getting them from? Let me know when you get them and decide to put them in... would love to come up and help.
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:08 PM
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I got all of it from Elephant Racing. I think that Von Shocks are part of the same business.

While the RSR housings are threaded for coilovers, I'm going to initially use them with my torsion bars... then upgrade later if I want.

We will have to get together eventually to trade stories. I haven't met any P-car guys yet in Colorado. I took her out for a nice run on Sunday, re-energizing my desire to get moving on this again (Denver to Copper mtn, down to Leadville, then Buena Vista, then 285 back to Denver). This was my first good run since I put in the K27-7200 and the B&B intercooler. I really enjoy the added power.
Old 02-01-2010, 01:27 PM
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Dude go with RSR coil overs at all 4 corners and you'll love it. The ride is more predicatable, better response, crisp but not harsh etc.

I ran them with 300 lbs front and 500 lbs rears with no torsions and it was fantastic, nice and comfy for a 3000 mile trip in race buckets.
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:56 PM
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Gabe that is the same set up that I am considering... 300 front/500 rear. Was it harsh on bumpy roads... the winters do a number on the roads here in CO.
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:45 AM
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I'm probably going to hold off on coilovers... see what I can get using torsion bars. I can always change later. Plus, I really don't like the idea of putting that kind of load/stress on parts of the car that weren't designed for it. I think the rear end, in particular, would really need to be beefed up... engine out and some fab and welding time.
Old 02-02-2010, 07:20 AM
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I tried coilovers and did not like them for street use. I eventually went back to tbars. I think coilovers are overkill for the street car. Have someone that knows what they are doing setup your tbars, shocks, sway bars, and such. It's much cheaper than tbars and every bit as good for street use.

Track is a different story. Track cars need the adjustability of coilovers. or so i hear.
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Old 02-02-2010, 07:39 AM
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Von Suspension

I'm looking in Elephant Racing's Von Coilover packages as well and would like to hear from any member having experience with that system. Thanks, Drane
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djdawson2 View Post
I'm probably going to hold off on coilovers... see what I can get using torsion bars. I can always change later. Plus, I really don't like the idea of putting that kind of load/stress on parts of the car that weren't designed for it. I think the rear end, in particular, would really need to be beefed up... engine out and some fab and welding time.
Dave,

That's my plan this weekend, if all goes well at work, is to put coilovers on the front of my car. Going with a 400/600 setup with Smart sway bars.
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Old 02-03-2010, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
the winters do a number on the roads here in CO.
I hear that!
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Old 02-03-2010, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djdawson2 View Post
I'm probably going to hold off on coilovers... see what I can get using torsion bars. I can always change later. Plus, I really don't like the idea of putting that kind of load/stress on parts of the car that weren't designed for it. I think the rear end, in particular, would really need to be beefed up... engine out and some fab and welding time.
It really depends on how much power you are making.

Everyone knowledgeable on 911/930 supsensions that i spoke with regarding the fabled 'rear shock tower cracking' line that gets repeated everytime coilovers are mentioned (including guru Clint from Rebel racing), said that they have never seen it happen on street cars. For race or cars that see a lot of track use, even then it's maybe, but if you track your car and want to maintain suspension geometry anyway, no-brainer to reinforce the towers. If you are running a stock motor, then a correctly set-up suspension with torsion bars to your ride taste is more than adequate.

However, if you are making over 450 or so HP, you are going to really need some serious coilage in the rear to counter squat on accleration, and a set in the front to balance it out. I have ridden/driven in a few coilover 911's/930s, including Gabe's 600+hp ride, and most rode and handled better than some stiff torsion bar set ups. All depends on how things are set up. Personally, i like the ease of adjustment of the coilovers, and i think that any 930 making serious power needs them to reach achieve more predictable handling.
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Old 02-03-2010, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juicersr View Post
It really depends on how much power you are making.

Everyone knowledgeable on 911/930 supsensions that i spoke with regarding the fabled 'rear shock tower cracking' line that gets repeated everytime coilovers are mentioned (including guru Clint from Rebel racing), said that they have never seen it happen on street cars. For race or cars that see a lot of track use, even then it's maybe...
That's really good to hear. Mine has 400/600 coil overs all around but the previous owner never beefed up the rear towers and I have been concerned about that. I looked for cracks but don't see any but have always thought about adding gussets, etc. I suppose that is at the bottom of to-do list.
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Old 02-03-2010, 02:36 PM
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Well... for now, my power goals are modest. The suspension parts that I'm buying will be easy to upgrade to coilovers. If that time comes, I'll make the move.

My biggest problem is lack of 930 experience. In fact, I haven't even ridden in any modified 930's to make my own judgment on coilovers and various engine mods. But I'll get there. Hopefully there will be some opportunity for get togethers somewhere in Colorado in the coming summer.

Thanks for the input.
Old 02-03-2010, 03:52 PM
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From another coil over discussion.

All things being equal, the reason that ride quality improves with coilovers is due to excessive chassis flex.

Its not an apples-to-apples comparison. A proper coilover package requires serious chassis reinforcements including a proper cage.
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Old 02-03-2010, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumba View Post
From another coil over discussion.

All things being equal, the reason that ride quality improves with coilovers is due to excessive chassis flex.
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Well, this is why I backed away in the first place. I've seen plenty of upper strut mounts cracked on cars with stiff springs... and those were cars designed for coil springs. When I think of perching my car's weight on points that were not designed to carry those loads, it gives be a bad feeling.

I'm going to see what I can get from a torsion bar setup, as my goals are simply comfortable, yet responsive. I like to use my car for long trips... so I don't want anything that will beat me up from spending a full day in it.
Old 02-03-2010, 04:55 PM
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That's interesting to hear about other cars having problems due to stiff coil springs.

Now regarding our cars I think more loads are transfered to the shock towers than one may realize. Since, there are no stop bumpers except on the shocks lots of loads gets transfered to the shock towers when one bottoms out. So, perhaps it's a mute point when comparing torsion bars to coil overs in regard to loads on the shock towers. Yes, more loads from the coil overs are acting on the shock towers up to point of bottoming. But I'm sure cracks have formed around shock towers on old 911's with torsion bars especially those that were "abused". Does anyone agree with my thinking or am I way off base?
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:41 PM
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