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Metal Guru
 
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Secan Intercoolers; Who Knows About Them?

Secan intercoolers are legendary for their efficiency and cost.
A Google search turns up almost no information about the company.
What the skinny on this product? Is the reputation deserved or just more internet hype?
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Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 01-30-2010, 04:46 AM
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no clue but interested to know more. Hey did you get your spipes back in good order?
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Current project 73 914-6 Gt project rusteration 2.4
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:00 AM
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Yes, the joint looks great.
Gonna hold off putting them back on; I may have some performance mods to initiate soon
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Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 01-30-2010, 05:04 AM
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The cores are used by Porsche Motorsport in the 993 GT2s (IIRC) - they're aircraft grade air to air ICs that are by far the most efficient ones out there.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:11 AM
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They are a French Aerospace company. As Gabe said, they are the most efficient cores available right now and $$$$$$$$.
Old 01-30-2010, 05:46 AM
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Forgot to add, they're about $25,000 for a full bay sized core.
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Old 01-30-2010, 06:37 AM
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And i think you'll find you can only buy one through RS Tuning in Germany. Secan are purely aerospace i believe, therefore silly prices for the cores, they clearly do the job though!

I've heard Marston cores are pretty close to Secan, and a LOT less money, and available to us mere mortals. CTR Developements in the UK will build you an intercooler using Marston cores Intercoolers
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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 01-30-2010, 07:07 AM
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Wo ist die Rennstrecke?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper930 View Post
.... by far the most efficient ones out there.
How is this claim measured? Not that I am interested in a new high $$ IC, just interested in the claim.
Old 01-30-2010, 08:37 AM
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They guarantee to keep the intake temps within/under 20-degrees of ambient, i don't think any other intercooler has been able to do the same.
Out curiosity Don, do you log your intake temps after the intercooler along with ambient? Anyone else have info of theirs?
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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 01-30-2010, 08:52 AM
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I bet the Secan cores are mint, but no way for 25K+. The CTR intercooler pics have beautiful end tanks- I wonder how they get those shapes or are they simply hydroformed?
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Last edited by 930gt-40r; 01-30-2010 at 09:33 AM..
Old 01-30-2010, 09:29 AM
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Wo ist die Rennstrecke?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBL930 View Post
They guarantee to keep the intake temps within/under 20-degrees of ambient, i don't think any other intercooler has been able to do the same.
Out curiosity Don, do you log your intake temps after the intercooler along with ambient? Anyone else have info of theirs?
Wish I could, just out of curiosity.

Is their guarantee for auto as well? I can see aviation because of air volume over the surface and so on. The less than ambient claim means there is an expansion chamber and pressure drop too. This discussion is a moot point anyway because of the price.
Old 01-30-2010, 09:49 AM
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Sorry if my wording is incorrect, what i mean is they will keep intake charge air within 20 degrees of ambient, if it's 20-degrees out then the air after the intercooler is under 40-degrees, even in racing conditions! This is for the Porsche application, i bet they perform better in the aero world as you say there is much more air passing over them, and they would be better positioned! Our intercoolers couldn't be in a worse place!
It would be great to see what others will do under sustained high speed, long WOT runs! I will be doing a VMax event soon, hoping to borrow a Bosch Hammer for the day, i will see how the stock 993 intercooler performs. Pretty sure the 997 with those CTR coolers is there too, so will hopefully see whether they perform as well as a Secan
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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan

Last edited by JBL930; 01-30-2010 at 10:45 AM..
Old 01-30-2010, 10:42 AM
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Anyone know what type of core the C2 Turbos and 993TT's use? Tube & Fin?

Anyone know who's cores Protomotove uses on there air cooled intercooers?


Any info or comments on these: Griffin Radiators and Thermal Products
Old 01-30-2010, 01:38 PM
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1-Bar & Plate.
2-Proto=Griffin.
Cheers.
Old 01-30-2010, 04:57 PM
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Bell are nice and will buuild to your specs. I'm happy with mine and it keeps temps down close to ambient even under 12psi.

I use a pair of shrouded puller-fans under the cooler.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:09 PM
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Any of the intercoolers will work to one degree or another, what separates the Secan is that it can keep the temps down when it's really needed, on the track or long hard Autobahn runs. Where the ECU will have to be pulling timing to keep temps down, the Secan can keep things cool and therefore the engine giving full power. Overkill for the vast majority of us, but absolutely necessary for the 993 GT2 Evo race cars for instance.

A mate who's spent a lot of time at RS Tuning says they have half a dozen prototype coolers on the shelf that didn't make the grade, all with Secan cores. It seams that it's not just having an efficient core, there's clearly a lot more to it.
The motorsport GT2 ones are a lot different to the ones RS use on the road cars, and are the ones that change hands for massive money $30k+, i think the road ones are more reasonable, but still $16k

A good link here with some proper testing! 9M Prototype intercooler test report - Rennlist Discussion Forums
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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 01-30-2010, 06:30 PM
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Wo ist die Rennstrecke?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBL930 View Post
Sorry if my wording is incorrect, what i mean is they will keep intake charge air within 20 degrees of ambient, if it's 20-degrees out then the air after the intercooler is under 40-degrees, even in racing conditions! This is for the Porsche application, i bet they perform better in the aero world as you say there is much more air passing over them, and they would be better positioned! Our intercoolers couldn't be in a worse place!
It would be great to see what others will do under sustained high speed, long WOT runs! I will be doing a VMax event soon, hoping to borrow a Bosch Hammer for the day, i will see how the stock 993 intercooler performs. Pretty sure the 997 with those CTR coolers is there too, so will hopefully see whether they perform as well as a Secan
I probably read it wrong - sorry.

My Bell keeps temps in a very nice range, until I get on the track at constant WOT. For the price, it's an excellent value but probably not one of the most efficient.
Old 01-30-2010, 06:54 PM
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mamut,

To confirm, so Proto uses the Griffin intercooler cores which are tube and fin on the air cooled conversions?

Thank you much!

Most the 930 aftermarket intercoolers were reported to be about 50-60% efficent (Koklen...).

In Bruce Anderson's book on modifying 930's Proto notes there intercoolers are over 90% efficient.

If this is ture, this would be a major advantage.

Part of this has to be a smaller dimension top to bottom and a wide foot to allow for sufficient capacity from a tube IC to minimize pressure drop.

The shorter run through the IC also reduces pressure drop.

Seems most the cooling occurs in the top surface of an IC and within the first couple of inches of the run through the inter coolers.

Thus a wide, shallow, modest run core seems to be the most efficient.

End tank design being the next important variable in reducing pressure drop. Any reduction in vorticity seems to bring with it an increase in back pressure. Thus end tanks like on the factory C2 Turbo is better than a fabricated box.
Old 01-31-2010, 07:41 AM
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These are pics of the Porsche motorsport 993 GT2 Evo Secan intercoolers, the mega money ones, this is as good as it gets.
If i was trying to work out the best width, thickness, type of core etc etc..... I would be copying this design as closely as humanly possible



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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 01-31-2010, 08:17 AM
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A video of Tiff driving the blue Evo above YouTube - Porsche GT2 EVO The story goes that he blew the engine up, it was supposedly owned by Liam Howlett from the Prodigy, but is now owned by a Pistonhead member called Flamespitter, lovely car!
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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 01-31-2010, 08:46 AM
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