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Infidel
 
JBL930's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
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Big Reds in the rear!

Hoping for some help, the big reds go in the front without issue.
But the rear big reds are not so straight forward!
I currently have the 930 fronts in the rear, with the silver 993C4 fronts, and it works fine. But i just want more stopping power.

As i've said, no issue with the fronts..... But those of you with 993tt big reds in the back, can you tell me what's involed, what did you do, what's needed.... Would appreciate the info

Edit: I have the calipers, and have had then for what seams like forever, just want to get them fitted and the rears are looking like a nightmare
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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan

Last edited by JBL930; 02-01-2010 at 08:13 PM..
Old 02-01-2010, 08:10 PM
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No-one has rear big reds fitted?
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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 02-02-2010, 05:01 AM
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Allo John got a new motor? ..... sorry

Bill Verburg is your man, PM him or post in the 911 forum, he hangs out there.
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:47 AM
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I have them, but for the life if me, I can't remember how the rears mount. With or without an adapter? I know the fronts use the adapter.

Sorry I wasn't much help.
Old 02-02-2010, 07:12 AM
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How does it change the bias would be my first question? I really dont know the stock or your bias but if you want more stopping power it usually comes from the front brakes.

If the stock/your bias is too much front then a bit bigger rear brakes would help. Without ABS test carefully before doing any fast corners with late or trail braking.

Last edited by smurfbus; 02-02-2010 at 07:58 AM..
Old 02-02-2010, 07:53 AM
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I thought that the rears required some machining to fit. From what I remember it is not a big deal but there is no way to just mount them up.
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Old 02-02-2010, 08:23 AM
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I dont think they need machining, but I do remember that the rear rotors on a 930 are thinner than 993 units, thus there are issues when the pad is down to its last 1/8th it can potentially lip out and create a big problem. VCI brakes has some ungodly expensive solutions, but they are quality. There are also adapters that mate the 993 calipers to the rear of the car, in fact I think they are the same as the front adapters.
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:20 AM
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may I ask what you think you will be gaining by adding big reds to the rear?

The 993 C4 fronts are the same as the 928 S4 calipers and similar to the 91-92 964 turbo fronts. The only difference is the rotor size the 91-92 turbo uses a 322 x 32mm rotor vs the 993 which uses a 304 x 32mm rotor. Otherwise pad size is 48 x 132 mm and piston size is 44/36 mm same as the big reds. The only difference you would gain by adding the big reds is an extra 10mm of pad width increasing it from 48mm to 58 mm and 18mm in rotor dia. Sounds like a lot of effort for little improvement.

Clamping force should be nearly identical. So what gain would you see. I have no idea how much power you are running but you might consider a change in pad compound long before messing with big reds all around. I am using big reds up front and 964 turbo rear calipers and matching rotor size on my 300 hp C2 track car with pagid yellows front and oranges rear and I can easily exceed the ABS on my car and go right into threshold braking. My car weighing a hefty 3000 pounds should outweigh your 930 by at least 200 pounds and I am sure you have a larger contact patch than my 235/265 tires i am running.

I would think if you want more stopping power you would scrap out the big reds and go directly to a brembo racing setup. They have calipers that offer large pistons (ie more clamping force) and use smaller pads that are far more reasonably priced than the options available for the big reds.

Just a thought.
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:31 AM
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Cheers for the help chaps, just got back from the garage and the guys are saying much the same, my set up is pretty good as it is, and i wouldn't gain enough to make it worth the effort, so i'll stick with what i have for now!
I needed new disks up front and thought now would be the time to change, but the fronts are pretty much the same as the big reds so no real point.
I don't do much track work, probably one or two track days a year. What i do get involved with is VMax days, basically flat out runs on a 2 mile runway, getting up around 190mph and then having to stop pretty quick, so that's the main reason for the extra stopping power, but it's stopped fine in the past so no bother.

What i did find out though was that my rear calipers are actually not the fronts i thought they were!! I did the brake change when my car was being looked after by 9m (ninemeister) here in the UK, and was charged for the 993 C4 front calipers, and the work required to fit the 930 fronts on the rear. The absolute arseholes have done nothing with the rears, and sold my fronts!!!!!!
They've sold all the stuff that came off my car including my old, but perfect condition, euro headers along with lots of other bits. They also sold a load of Ruf parts of a guys car who i know and never told him, luckily they sold them to another guy i know and i put them both in touch. They did the same with a set of GHL headers off another mates car!

If i didn't have enough hatred for 9m before, then now my blood is really boiling!! Is it normal practice for garages to sell customers parts and pocket the money?
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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 02-02-2010, 11:03 AM
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"Is it normal practice for garages to sell customers parts and pocket the money?"
Not unless the owner just left them behind with no cares, or agreed to that.

If not agreed to and this happened here... guys I know would wait for the right time and location and beat the livin crap out of any mechanic that did that and the lowlife would never even think about doing it again if his knees and fingers still worked.
Old 02-02-2010, 11:41 AM
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I guess a lot of it would have to do with their policy and how long the parts remained without being picked up. I usually request all parts back and my shop has misplaced a few insignificant parts but mostly everything gets returned eventually. if they were left behind for more than 3 months they could claim you abandoned them and they could claim they tossed them unless you can prove otherwise.

I would insist on the parts back or the money and if they don't oblige I would involve the police and let them decide. Technically, at least in the US if the parts came from your car they are your parts unless there is something on the bill saying the replacement parts were sold as a partial exchange.

Otherwise this would be considered sale of stolen goods. I am sure they would be happy to deal with a charge like that.

Glad to see we could help with the brakes. The 930 pad is the same one used on the 964 front and rear or the 964 turbo rear 44 x 98 mm. That should be enough to stop your car but stopping anything from 190mph takes time and distance. i would think your biggest enemy would be heat. You might consider venting your brakes to help heat dissipation since you will be on your brakes hard for a long time to get it down to 0mph.
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Anthony PCA affiliate '77 member '83 '90 3.8 RS tribute, '93 964 C2, '93 928 GTS 5 speed, '94 Turbo 3.6, M '15 Boxster GTS18 Macan GTS
Gone worth mentioning '71 E '79 SC, '79 built to '74 3.0 RS tribute (2390 # 270 hp), '80 928 euro 5 speed, '74 2.0l 914, '89 944 S2,'04 Cayenne TT '14 boxster, '14 Cayenne GTS many others
Old 02-02-2010, 12:18 PM
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Good info from the guys. I didn't read all the OP question, but thought he was installing a Big Red brake kit. That's what I have and it was a no brainer. I installed a brake bias valve, but have never used it. I could have gotten away with out installing it in hindsight. The balance front to rear is good with Pagid yellows.

One thing to think about with bigger calipers is heat. The Big Red rotors (322x 32) have a bigger heatsink capabilty.
Old 02-02-2010, 02:49 PM
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I bought a big red kit for the front and at the same time a local shop who knew I was looking for a set pulled a set off a wrecked 993. So I ended up with all four for a killer price. I installed all four along with a bias valve and never looked back. In fact, at Road Atlanta, riders are more impressed with the braking than the acceleration. On the track, I use Hawk Blues and on the road, OEM.
Old 02-02-2010, 04:16 PM
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Don, how did you go about fitting the rear calipers? Did you have to machine off the 993 fixing points, and then fit an adapter? Or did you do it a different way? I'd like to know because i probably will fit the big reds eventually, pointless them sitting in a box
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87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 02-02-2010, 04:38 PM
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I bought machined aluminum adapters from Turbo Performance in Jessup Maryland. They also provided the big hex bolts (I think 10 x 1.5mm - maybe a bit bigger) that you used to attach the adapter to the calipers. Otherwise, everything bolted right into place with a perfect fit.

Since the motor is out, I might be able to take pics if you want to see them installed from the backside.
Old 02-02-2010, 04:47 PM
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Don, that would really help if you wouldn't mind, thank you
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Jonathan.
87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan
Old 02-02-2010, 06:02 PM
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Here you go. The machine aluminum adapter is visible to the left of the caliper, anodized in black. The caliper mounting bolts are just above and below (hidden from view) the gold hex bolts.


Old 02-02-2010, 07:34 PM
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Do you have a different master cylinder Don? Do you use the same 930 discs? Is the braking improved considerably?
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Old 02-02-2010, 07:39 PM
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If I can fit them on my GTI you shouldn't have any problems installing them on the rear of your 930

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Old 02-02-2010, 07:57 PM
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Adapter for front and rear, but with my centerlocks I had custom hats made. No ebrake to mess with as centerlocks deleted that too..but other than the adapters which came from brembo, had no issues.

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Old 02-03-2010, 01:50 AM
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