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-   -   Lightweight Flywheel Poll (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/525321-lightweight-flywheel-poll.html)

911nut 02-07-2010 05:28 AM

Lightweight Flywheel Poll
 
My goal with this thread is to unite the opinions about lightweight flywheels into one spot.
Please offer your opinions here if you have a lightweight flywheel.
Do you like it better than stock?
Ok for street use?
Which components did you utilize?
Engine fwhp and vehicle weight?
Thanks.

David 02-07-2010 08:33 AM

I have a Patrick lightweight flywheel and Kennedy aluminum pressure plate. I like how it revs in first gear, but do find myself giving it more throttle than I used to when pulling away from a stop.

JBL930 02-07-2010 09:20 AM

I will report back in a week when i pick my car up, RS lightweight flywheel fitted, had the mega heavy duel mass jobbie in there before, should feel quite a bit different! Hope i do like it.........

Reaper930 02-09-2010 12:36 AM

My light weight wheel is AMAZING - after driving from the mountains of NC to the flat lands of Tx...nothing is better. She rev's like a sport bike and sounds like a formula 1 car due to it. Most fun i've ever had in a car, although it does have a personality and its hard to be "quiet" when pulling away from stop signs etc.

Requires more delicate throttle application.

steven c 02-09-2010 05:17 AM

I am considering this and very interested in this poll. I have talked with Patrick and he says the RS flywheel is not correct for a 965 and recommends a turbo s lightweight which he says is different?? Any comments on this would be appreciated.

JBL930 02-09-2010 05:58 AM

I used the RS flywheel on mine as it's a 993 turbo engine, i'm not sure what options there are for the 964 and 930, but i'm sure there are many. I should pick the car up tomorrow so will give you guys my thoughts then. I have a 300 mile drive to do it in on Friday, stop go traffic, motorways etc, so should get a good feel for what it's like, then 300 miles back on Sunday. Looking forward to seeing how much different the car is with the G50 too, hoping the hydraulic clutch is a little easier than the cable one with the 4 speed :)

911nut 02-09-2010 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steven c (Post 5175064)
I am considering this and very interested in this poll. I have talked with Patrick and he says the RS flywheel is not correct for a 965 and recommends a turbo s lightweight which he says is different?? Any comments on this would be appreciated.

This is quite possibly true.
If you look around the internet, it seems that the RS stuff doesn't fit a G50/52-3.3L combination. Pelican sells a unique package that's not compatible with the RS package. Kennedy Engineered Products now sells a G50/52 pressure plate also that doesn't appear to work with the G50/50 transaxle.

Black_Hat 02-09-2010 02:02 PM

I found to be a pain on the street
having to rev to pull away from a light
worse with A/C on
and even more of an issue in the rain
combine with a hotter cam ...even more of an issue

Yes it revs really nice and some time fun to drive

also revs can drop Too fast on some tracks ...off boost ...no fun

pros and cons

911nut 02-09-2010 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black_Hat (Post 5176037)
I found to be a pain on the street
having to rev to pull away from a light
worse with A/C on
and even more of an issue in the rain
combine with a hotter cam ...even more of an issue

Yes it revs really nice and some time fun to drive

also revs can drop Too fast on some tracks ...off boost ...no fun

pros and cons

Hat, what rpm so you need to hit to pull away on a dry day?
I'd think that your can would rev quickly enough that you wouldn't notice "off boost".
Can you elaborate?

Black_Hat 02-09-2010 07:16 PM

right now my daily drive is a 91 c2turbo stock fly wheel it is a dream to drive in town.

my other experiences have been with light fly wheel 94c2 600 hp powerhaus, a 92 c2 ported with 965 cams and a 930 with sc cams no port .

I dont know what RPM for take off but hotter cams seem to lift the RPM needed and any porting does the same

the problem is on takeoff ..no boost no fly wheel mass ..it is just easier to kill the motor

my opinion for street

now if the car was stripped down ..and was my weekend weapon...I would choose different.

cl8ton 02-09-2010 08:57 PM

I have the Sachs Sporting Aluminum Clutch and Flywheel…

I live in a flat area and the setup really causes me no pain here, but once I get it into the mountains or the coastal areas. Stopping and going on a sloped road is painful!

I smell clutch plate most of the times!

911nut 02-13-2010 07:53 AM

Interesting poll results.
Hat, with hot cams and ports, did you raise the compression ratio?
If you didn't I'd expect sluggish low speed response no matter what. A lightweight flywheel makes things a little worse but isn't really the cause of the issue.
Question to all who run these packages: do you notice any idle instability or rpm flaring, especially with hot cams?
Jonathan, did you get your car back yet. If you did, what are your impressions?

911st 02-13-2010 08:53 AM

+1 on the effect of cams, ports -- pre boost onset.

A larger intercooler can add to this some as it can slow down the intake velocity quickly. This adds a bit of additional restriction and creates more area that has to be pressurized.

Compression and ideal AFR & ignition help most here.

A a light FW dose let it spin up a little faster from idle to clutch engagement. This is when the motor is only making maybe 5-25hp so less mass to spin up before the clutch is dropped will make for some improvement.

I think I had a cup flywheel on my 91 turbo but not sure. Added a 3.6T sport clutch later.

My biggest improvement to off idle was getting the AFR's to near 13/1 (ignition was not adjustable) and aggressive manipulation that lowered control pressure quickly at first to get the metering plate out of the way. I think this might be doable with a D-WUR.

I believe is what effects the area off idle to the first hint of boost (boost onset).

Twin plugging +3%
SC cams -2%
C2 cams -4%
3400cc +3%
3500cc +6%
ideal timing and AFR 0-10%
.5 increase in CR +2%
1 point more CR +4%
Pressure sensing EFI conversion (no restrictive metering system) 10%+.
Ports, do not know.
Muffler to lower back pressure, yes.

These are just approximation and gut feel. However, SC cams lower effective compression about .5 and C2's about 1 point. Going from 7/1 a full point of compression it good for about 4-5% in power.


The biggest reasion for a dual mass flywheel on a G50/C2 turbo is to quiet the transmission. Thus some additional chatter might be noticed with a light weight.

911nut 02-13-2010 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911st (Post 5183179)
The biggest reason for a dual mass flywheel on a G50/C2 turbo is to quiet the transmission. Thus some additional chatter might be noticed with a light weight.

Keith, I have a dual mass and it chatters anyway. Have to put my hand very lightly on the shift lever to dampen it out.
My feeling is that a lightweight clutch package (pressure plate/flywheel combo) will lessen the impact of hot cams at low engine speeds since the engine is at low rpm for a shorter time if it's spinning up faster.

JBL930 02-13-2010 09:49 AM

I picked the car up on Thursday, driven 300 odd miles up to a funeral this weekend, driving back tomorrow, so i've had a fair bit of time behind the wheel. I'm not sure i really notice the difference to be honest, no issues whatsoever with stalling, bit of gearbox whine at low RPM but it goes away above 2000rpm. The G50/50 box is an absolute peach, i love it, such a huge difference to the singal box changes with the 4 speed.
Clutch feels much heavier, but then i've gone for the Sachs 890nm jobbie. The whole package has really transformed the car to be honest, but i'm not sure i would notice whether there was a duel mass one or lightweight in there. I think the engine is revving up quicker, but not sure if it's my imagination? I need to do some timed runs and see if it's knocked some 10ths off my 60-130, will do so soon. That's the beauty of being able to time between speeds, the changes you make are measurable, no BS that way!

911st 02-13-2010 09:57 AM

Taking 24 lbs (a guess) off the flywheel will reduce the gross drive train mass and power loss some. If anything it might be felt better in first than in higher gears where the torque multiplier effect is greater.

Mine came with a light clutch so I can not say how much to expect.

I would think it would be more felt before the clutch is engaged. Like when bliping for a down shift. However, CIS turbos do not blip well as we all know.

Most noticeable will probably be when trying to quickly get the rev's up for a quick stop light start. Having a disk material that can hold up to some slipping at a start might help to.

9dreizig 02-13-2010 02:23 PM

Damn wish I was with u guys I'm leaving in an hour on a cruise nothing to do but chase pussy and drink for a week!

JBL930 02-16-2010 04:01 PM

Well the drive back was uneventful, crap weather and traffic :( I still have absolutely no issues with stalling, car behaves great!
Not a fan of the low RPM, part throttle, chatter/whine you get through the gearbox, it doesn't bother me, but would prefer if it wasn't there.
If my 60-130 times are the same as before, then i wouldn't say the lightweight flywheel was worth it, we will see.
The G50 box on the other hand is simply great, and the clutch feels great, albeit a tad heavy

GJF 02-16-2010 05:31 PM

The G50 chatter is a bit annoying isn't it? But I will take it over the 4-speed. The chatter has been a complaint of many. I had people new to the g50 bring the cars to me thinking there was a problem with the trans. I see you have the 890nm clutch.. Did you see it first hand before they installed it? I am in need of a new clutch and this unit is suppose to be superior to the Kennedy unit. I can deal with a heavier pedal. What disc did you end up using?

JBL930 02-16-2010 11:16 PM

The clutch and pressure plate thing was a little interesting, i was told to order this Sachs SRE Performance Kupplung - Sportkupplung Set - TTNET - Sachs Performance Parts
Then i got in touch with Gert at Carnewal in Germany to see if he could do me a deal as he's pretty good with prices etc. He got in touch with Sachs and forwarded them the link for reference. Apparently they went nuts, the website is nothing to do with Sachs, and they are not even listed as a Sachs supplier, apparently Sachs are going to take action.
Anyway, Gert ordered me the bits direct from Sachs and it was cheaper, it came to roughly the same amount 'including' shipping, and the clutch disk was called "organic racing" on the receipt, no part number though i'm afraid.


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