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-   -   Bell Intercooler (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/525511-bell-intercooler.html)

drmatera 02-09-2010 01:04 PM

We have plans for my intercooler. Our design will be based on air flow path and distribution across the cores. We will have diverters welded inside the tanks to ensure the whole core gets even distribution of air to maximize cooling. Cast tanks would be great but weight and cost prohibit that

911st 02-09-2010 02:04 PM

The 964T is my favorit. Not only dose it have a wide thin core it has the best end tanks.

Further the goodness starts at the turbo discharge with a tube that is steeped on the inside to provide smooth flow and transition from the turbo and into the IC.

RUF chose it for most its C2 & 993 conversion kits and I think for up to a rating of 425hp. However, they added a flange around it to aid in sealing.

911nut 02-09-2010 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copbait73 (Post 5175699)
Not to disparage any of the aftermarket coolers shown however look at the location, angle and attention to detailed "flowing" of the stock 964T intercooler inlet casting. I would think that given many years to test numerous configurations leading up to release of the only improved CAC on the single turbo motor this may be a design configuration to duplicate for maximum efficiency.

Don't think so.
Stock intercoolers are built to a price point that's lower than the aftermarket. They are good at what they do, give what they are but they aren't the last word in efficiency.
After you read this you might change your mind: 9M Prototype intercooler test report - Rennlist Discussion Forums

copbait73 02-09-2010 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911nut (Post 5176009)
Don't think so.
Stock intercoolers are built to a price point that's lower than the aftermarket. They are good at what they do, give what they are but they aren't the last word in efficiency.
After you read this you might change your mind: 9M Prototype intercooler test report - Rennlist Discussion Forums

Don't confuse my comment regarding efficient handling of airflow with the cost and performance of the basic heat exchanger core. No OEM can justify the cost of a premium core configuration. Premium cores are not cost/benefit justified for most street applications. Only those who track their cars or those running at extreme HP are getting payback on their investment over what the OE provides from the factory.

911st 02-09-2010 05:16 PM

I think that is the same thread I once read on the 9m. If so my take away was it was hard for most the aftermarket I/C's to beat the stock 993TT intercooler and many had spend a lot of dollars on IC's thinking they would make in improvement only to discover from some of the tests that was not to case.

There seems to be very little quality testing of intercoolers. I would guess any testing would include the temp deltas as well as pressure drop.

I like these end tanks and IC for a fabricated unit. Note the ducting to the motor intake.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265764339.jpg

DonE 02-09-2010 06:29 PM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265768559.jpg

Thought I would throw my Bell IC out here too. Thanks to David (125shifter) for his specs as it works very well. If I had it to do all over again, I would make it side to side and 3in core but again, it works well for my EFI conversion.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265768582.jpg

I thought I would throw this one in to show how I use the stock 3.2L throttle position. No need for cutting and twisting.

SCHNELE 02-09-2010 06:34 PM

I don't think Ruf used the 964 on any application but the RCT.

911st 02-09-2010 08:37 PM

C2 & 993 RCT at apx 380hp and Evo at 425hp if I recall correctly but it has been years.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265777249.jpg

Reaper930 02-10-2010 03:12 AM

The hoses are feeding the turbos...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265764339.jpg

Garrison 02-10-2010 07:07 AM

Done, you said above side to side and 3 in core... I am assuming you are talking about the tanks being on the sides, or the rows running side to side vs. top to bottom? Just wondering what you ment and why? Trying to make sure I get it right when I order this. THX

911st 02-10-2010 07:33 AM

Don, I to am wondering about your comment.

In my words your current core runs front to back. If you are saying a 3" side to side, I would not think you could get enough CFM through it.

Your current fabricated IC is a great set up I would think assuming the core size is fit to your HP.

I could see keeping your current lay out and going to a 3" core if it flows enough CFM to support your current HP level.

911st 02-10-2010 09:40 AM

RUF C2 RCT w C2T intercooler.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265823580.jpg

copbait73 02-10-2010 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911st (Post 5177470)

Nice picture, it shows the "flowing" on the inlet much better.

Islander 02-10-2010 12:22 PM

Corky does great work.

WinRice 02-10-2010 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911st (Post 5177207)
Don, I to am wondering about your comment.

In my words your current core runs front to back. If you are saying a 3" side to side, I would not think you could get enough CFM through it.

I've been debating the same thing on my EFI setup. All the books show flow in the short direction, but is this optimum for a 930? High HP guys like Juan and Bello run side-to-side. Looks like you could get very nice intake air flow from the turbo, thru the IC and back to a Carrera intake with a side-to-side.

If we look at the cooling air through the IC, we may be missing an opportunity to get maximum cooling by a front-to-back IC, where the intake tank is located may be in the best cooling area of the engine and tail. An IC is only as good as the cooling air through it. When you look at the tail closed, you see a pretty big gap between the IC and the opening, towards the rear edge of the tail. This area is also located over the biggest open void in the engine compartment, that dumps straight into the engine fan, and would seem to offer the best flow through the IC.

Seems like the best airflow through the tail grille into the engine is the back half of the grill, and maybe the best place for the IC, which probably means a side-to-side.

This is all pure speculation, of course.;)

drmatera 02-10-2010 01:23 PM

If you took advantage of that rear area how would you close the lid?

WinRice 02-10-2010 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmatera (Post 5178015)
If you took advantage of that rear area how would you close the lid?

You couldn't get all the way to the back edge of the grill, but could get pretty close with my measurements.

A perfect solution would be the DP extended tail. :)

drmatera 02-10-2010 01:50 PM

yes, I had a DP on my '79. It allowed for a huge intercooler. Maybe if we remove the hood hinges and make it pin on, then you could hook it around the monster cooler and juggle it into place.

David 02-10-2010 04:42 PM

I don't see how you can flow enough through the side to side's to make the HP, but obviously Juan and Bello are doing it so I guess my math is off.

It really seems like it doesn't matter. Side to side, the air travels farther in the IC but the velocity is higher. Back to front, it doesn't go far but the velocity is low. It seems like the intake air spends about the same amount of time in either configuration.

Maybe someone who's spent too much time figuring on this can chime in :D

copbait73 02-10-2010 05:34 PM

For starters, the most efficient charge air cooler (CAC) has the most temperature drop while impacting pressure the least amount.

Side to side generally works best overall because at some distance past the entrance to the core most of the heat is removed and there is very little to be gained by traveling any further but something to be lost, pressure. This desired distance varies of course by how much heat is present in the gases at the entrance to the core.

Long(er) distance is needed if you have a killer HP turbo motor because the high boost introduces higher starting temperatures to the core, therefore a longer passage is needed to get the cooling accomplished.

My only comment regarding the two high HP subjects is that they are more properly sized for their intended use vs. many of the aftermarket CAC which frankly are oversized for the light duty most are exposed to pulling stoplight racer duty. But hey, if it wasn’t for the imposing size, how many guys would pay up to $2000 for something that only gives 20-30HP.


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