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-   -   Bell Intercooler (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/525511-bell-intercooler.html)

Garrison 02-08-2010 07:58 AM

Bell Intercooler
 
I have been talking with Bell Intercooler about having them spec up one for me, and have a couple questions for you guys.

For mostly street driving, with some track work, what would make the most sense; half-bay or full-bay? Or does it really matter? I have read and heard that the larger the intercooler the potential for longer spool up.

I am still learning when it comes to these cars, and am not sure what would be best for me. I don't plan on anything crazy... headers, K27S, 1 bar spring (once larger cooler is in place), no A/C, etc.

Also, has anyone had any experience with Bell? They seem to be top notch on the phone and over e-mail. Can build me a half-bay in 1 week... full-bay in 2 weeks. Cost is basically the same... roughly $1000.

Thanks guys!!! Here are a few pics for you.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265644683.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265644716.jpg

David 02-08-2010 09:09 AM

That top engine is mine and it's a Bell core but I fab'd up the tanks at work.

I asked Bell about the lag from the larger intercooler and they said you might notice the difference if you drove two identical cars with different intercoolers, but otherwise it's insignificant.

The only drawback to the Bell cores is the weight. My intercooler weighs right at 30 lbs.

If I did a full bay again, I'd probably use a 3" core to lose some weight. Unless you really want the AC condensor in the back, I'd go full bay so it's as efficient as possible.

Garrison 02-08-2010 09:27 AM

Yeah, they recommended a 3" core due to my HP goals, and for weight savings.

RarlyL8 02-08-2010 09:40 AM

I am working with Bell on development of the stock replacement unit in the second picture. It will look more refined when finished and there will be zero fitment issues, a true bolt-on.

wjfk32 02-08-2010 10:06 AM

What about a Kokeln style intercooler??? Larger surface area..etc.etc...

The 2nd pic doesn't look that thick/camera angle or does that matter.... Questions


Walter

WERK I 02-08-2010 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 125shifter (Post 5173205)
That top engine is mine and it's a Bell core but I fab'd up the tanks at work.

I asked Bell about the lag from the larger intercooler and they said you might notice the difference if you drove two identical cars with different intercoolers, but otherwise it's insignificant.

The only drawback to the Bell cores is the weight. My intercooler weighs right at 30 lbs.

If I did a full bay again, I'd probably use a 3" core to lose some weight. Unless you really want the AC condensor in the back, I'd go full bay so it's as efficient as possible.

David,
Do they do full bays with a thinner core?

Garrison 02-08-2010 10:16 AM

They do full bays at thinner cores for sure. I am looking at 3" vs. 4.5" as David has. For the cost it sure seems like it is hard to beat...

Brian, you are working with Bell for your car, or for another product line? Just wondering... seems like they could be a good resource.

hobieboy 02-08-2010 10:47 AM

I worked with Gerhard @ Bell to design mine as well. Mine is based on a 4.5" full bay core, but different than David's though (There's a picture of mine in the Turbocharging Performance Handbook :) ) - Gerhard suggested a left-right core as opposed to front-back.

I am very happy with the performance though weight is the big penalty. I remember weighing mine & its close to 40lb.

I suspect if you only use your car for street, a thinner core would suffice.

forwheeler 02-08-2010 11:00 AM

125shifter,
That setup looks great. I am interested in doing an almost identical intercooler setup except I will probably go with a 2.5-3" IC.

Can you tell me a little more about the plumbing? It looks like you drilled a new opening in the engine tin for the air cleaner to the turbo inlet.
Can I ask where you sourced the pipe and other fittings?
I assume your BOV is behind and attached to the IC.

David 02-08-2010 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forwheeler (Post 5173479)
125shifter,
That setup looks great. I am interested in doing an almost identical intercooler setup except I will probably go with a 2.5-3" IC.

Can you tell me a little more about the plumbing? It looks like you drilled a new opening in the engine tin for the air cleaner to the turbo inlet.
Can I ask where you sourced the pipe and other fittings?
I assume your BOV is behind and attached to the IC.

The inlet pipe is 3" (I think) so I had to open the tin a little. I also had to dent it a little to clear the engine mount. 3-1/4" or more would be better, but I wanted to keep it in the stock location.

All the tubing is from Burns Stainless - Home

If you look close, you can see the BOV on the turbo to IC pipe, where the distributor would normally be.

forwheeler 02-08-2010 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 125shifter (Post 5173549)
The inlet pipe is 3" (I think) so I had to open the tin a little. I also had to dent it a little to clear the engine mount. 3-1/4" or more would be better, but I wanted to keep it in the stock location.

All the tubing is from Burns Stainless - Home

If you look close, you can see the BOV on the turbo to IC pipe, where the distributor would normally be.

Cool, thanks for the info! I may be calling Bell soon.

drmatera 02-08-2010 08:04 PM

i've got 2 bell 12"x8"x3" cores that i plan on making my intercooler with when i do the twins. considered laying them out like a stock 993TT with the inlets to the outside blowing into a common plenum then to the TB. With a difuser in there to direct flow

Reaper930 02-09-2010 01:30 AM

I had a new Bell fabbed up for my K3 in the rear seat, 3" thick , 10 x 30"...cooling is about the thickness with these cars, or lack there of. The thinner the core (min 3") is better with wider bay design for more airflow to surface area ratio as the air in the thicker cores heats up quick, so unless you're feeding it tons of air, thicker isn't always better.

My IC is force fed via ducts in the rear quarters and I didn't even go with anything thicker than 3".

JohnJL 02-09-2010 03:47 AM

I use a bell, very happy with Gerhard, Corky and their advice and workmanship

jonesb930 02-09-2010 05:54 AM

Bell has a great selection of core sizes as well. I am leaning towards them as well. I don't plan on buying until I get everything else mounted up and the engine back in the car so i can maximize the size and keep the fitment clean.

Garrison 02-09-2010 07:47 AM

Good to hear that so many people on here are either using them, or looking to use them. Guess I know what my next mod will be. :)

911st 02-09-2010 09:27 AM

CIS or EFI?

Air Conditioning or not?

Have you done a search using "intercooler"? lots of very good info to be had.


The core, end tanks, and air ducting through the IC all are important to good intercooler performance.

A thinner wider core it better. A thick core needs a longer run to work as well.

The more air through the core the better the IC is going to work.

Note that 993TT not only has ducting for the intercooler but also ducts the motors intake up to the grill surface to ensure it gets fresh air. If we allow the intercooler to preheat the intake air it would go against all our goals.

Poor end tank design can add to pressure drop and turbo lag.

Of course extra volume has to be pressurized and that takes time.

Maybe more importantly might be to consider how air flows through the IC. Quick changes in direction & volume creates turbulence and contributes to back pressure. Abrupt corners that usually come with most fabricated tanks can also create turbulence and add to the pressure drop expected from the core. A well designed cast or CNC'd end tank like Porsche or MODE uses is usually going to make for a more orderly air flow and be best.

Notables from other threads:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 964 T #304 (Post 3449380)
You could also use a C2 turbo type system that has a shroud on intercooler and also vents dedicated for air to air box and engine.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1188308551.jpghttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1188308609.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265733943.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265736011.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265736090.jpg

http://members.cox.net/turbo930brat/DSCN1035a.JPG

Garrison 02-09-2010 09:41 AM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265737243.jpg

This is of interest for sure. I was wondering if anyone that goes with a full-bay has issues with airflow to the intake as well? Was the above home made, or is this a kit?

911st 02-09-2010 10:02 AM

He made it himself.

Great idea.

copbait73 02-09-2010 12:19 PM

Not to disparage any of the aftermarket coolers shown however look at the location, angle and attention to detailed "flowing" of the stock 964T intercooler inlet casting. I would think that given many years to test numerous configurations leading up to release of the only improved CAC on the single turbo motor this may be a design configuration to duplicate for maximum efficiency.


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