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Forced Induction Junkie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copbait73 View Post
................edited for space...................
I had 36 years uninterrupted employment in North American OEM turbocharging; product development, design, applications, technical sales and service. That ended one year ago almost to the day. I'm still not working.

I'm not at liberty to discuss the specific statements by this contributor because I signed a 35 page legal release document threating my future retirement with public statements about the company (given the same conditions what would you do?).
Sorry to hear of employment situation. Same boat here. After decades of leading the world in software development, we (the U.S.) got our butts kicked overseas. Ukraine, E.U., India, Pacific Rim, all got into the fray and we priced ourselves right out of the market. And its not because the software development is sub-standard. I was really impressed how quickly the Ukraine's could turn a project around.
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Old 02-25-2010, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juan ruiz View Post

Here I was looking at a beautiful turbo a T70 with .67 hot housing total cost out the door $225.00 that is not the disturbing part, the Garrett's internals will work fine inside this turbo, a GT 45 $ 400.00 want an intercooler $100.00 want a copy cat Tial waste gate or blow off valve 60mm! $85.00 again the OEM internals will fit perfectly fine inside the unit, copy cat HKS $ 35.00, Porsche H4 Headlight projector lights $ 65.00 !! and the list was endless from Waldro fuel pumps to boost controllers.

This is what the turbo looks like
Putting this stuff on a disposable $2k rice motor is one thing; question is, would u put any of this on the $20k++ lump sitting in the back of your ride?

I dunno, it's a crapshoot i guess, and a choice only the buyer can make. What's gonna suck tho is when the day comes that you don't even have an option of buying the good stuff at any price, which from the sound of things, seems like it's just around the corner.
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Old 02-25-2010, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matty74 View Post
I'm sticking with KKK
Would not be surprised at all if KKK component production is also outsourced to facilities in "developing" countries.

Much of the OEM parts you can buy here on Pelican are not german made. The Glyco/Federal Mogul engine and rod bearings I bought for my rebuild have "Made in Poland" stickers on the box. I've read in the forums that some folks have seen quality issues with the OEM Glyco bearings. One suggestion is to source geniune Porsche from a dealer (also mfg by Glyco, but with QC by Porsche), or get some super secret custom jobs from Jerry Woods...either option will cost you more than a Garrett turbo. I promise you that I am not cutting corners or "cheaping out" on this rebuild, but you do have to draw the line somewhere. I could not bring myseft to drop 1-2 grand on bearing sets...talk about ludicrous. The damn made in Poland Glyco ones are pricey enough as it is.

Also as part of my rebuild I'm replacing my chain tensioner idler arms with the updated ones. Brand spanking new one was defective out of the box...the sprocket shaft bores were not square and the sprocket was binding and not spinning smooth. This is a small $250 piece of cast metal that is simple as can be, but somehow they managed to screw it up.

You know, maybe the Chinese should start making P-car bearing sets and chain tensioner arms and selling them through Harbor Freight because if I'm going to get junk anyway, I'd prefer that it cost less.
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Old 02-25-2010, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwasbury View Post
Also as part of my rebuild I'm replacing my chain tensioner idler arms with the updated ones. Brand spanking new one was defective out of the box...the sprocket shaft bores were not square and the sprocket was binding and not spinning smooth. This is a small $250 piece of cast metal that is simple as can be, but somehow they managed to screw it up.
These folks must really have there heads up their ass. I had problems with my brand new tension kit. Notice a little alignment problem:

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Old 02-25-2010, 12:34 PM
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I'm VP of a company that works within the auto industry and just put together a quote for GM and needed to do a cost justification as part of my quote.
In my research I found that the avg. hourly wage for a UAW plant floor worker is $72.00 an hour with benefits.
One of the Engineers I work with just got back from China and is setting up container shipments of auto parts to China for assembly and transport back to the US as completed vehicles. Mike said they can load, ship, assemble, load and ship back completed vehicles for 51% of the cost of building the same vehicle in a US GM plant.
In grew up with a Grandfather who was a union member and told me how he worked 10-12 hour days with 20 min. lunch breaks and pissed in a coffee can by his machine for a bathroom until the union was started. I will be the first to tell anyone there was a need for labor unions. In my lifetime I have belonged to 3 unions with different jobs I've had. A few years ago the local GM plant was negotiating their new contract and we were doing work in the plant at the time. The negotiations came down to a contract provision that provided either a golf membership or a personal trainer for each plant UAW worker. That is an example of how far an originally honorable cause
has been corrupted and abused.
The present administration is owned by labor unions and we are going to be paying for their portion of the tax on their Cadillac health care plans so they don't loose any of there $72.00 pr. hr. The irony of all this is the Labor Unions are driving American manufacturing to India, China, and Mexico are the first to ***** about all the jobs going overseas or to Mexico.
Juan is dealing with the decision right now of moving operations or going under with his company. I have been in nearly every auto plant in the US, Canada, Mexico, Australia, and Brazil and I mean down on the floor where they run production and, hands down, the absolute best plant I have ever worked in was a Nissan plant in Smyrna, Tn. It was the cleanest, best organized, kindest workers, most co-operative and helpfull group I've ever worked with. This is a non union plant and the pay scale is $17-$19 an hour ad these people are proud of every vehicle that goes out the door.
My most memorable experience with the UAW was at a GM fab plant in Marion, In. I had a piece of equiptment that was not functioning and needed to change a board in the controller. First I needed a rigger to get me up to the controller cabinet, then I needed and electrician with me to test the board, then a rigger to get the cabinet down, but first another electrician to disconnect the wires, then a machine repairman to take the box loose, then another rigger had to get the box down, a machine repairman to take the cabinet to the shop, an electronics tech to pull thr board but she told me I would have to wait for second shift because she had just had her nails done and would not do it, second shift tech. changed the board, machine repair took the caninet back, rigger took the cabinet back up, machine repair reinstalled the cabinet, electrician connected the wires, rigger to take us back down. I had gone in the plant at 7:00 AM and left at 10:30 PM. It was 15 1/2 hrs at $72.00 an hour or $1,116.00 to change a pc board that I could have been done at the cabinet in 30 seconds. And the UAW is the first to ***** about jobs leaving the country.
We need to wake up here, Ovomit and the UAW are flushing our country.
I worked in the East Block 3-6 moths at a time when it was still communist/ socilaist and I can tell you for a fact, there is nothing good about it.

This is not a political statement it is simply what is real !!!

Cole
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Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 02-25-2010 at 01:36 PM..
Old 02-25-2010, 01:08 PM
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We are in a death spiral. Our companies are allowed to take our jobs overseas with no adjusting terrif to import back to the US and they use labor rates and conditions illegal in the US which in turn drags US wages down as we fight for the remaining jobs which means we have less money to spend which means we must buy cheap crap made overseas.
It seems we have swung from one extreme to the other. Somehow GM did just fine selling cars and making profit when labor was $72/hr and now that it is $27/hr and no GM car is made in the US they are bankrupt? Ironic or Karma?
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Old 02-25-2010, 01:31 PM
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Brian,

Actually all GM vehicles sold in North America are made in the USA, Canada, or
Mexico. Everything China makes primarily stays there. Those vehicles are models we never see, a lot of diesels and clown cars.
Mexico has 3 active plants and are of course the most profitable because of lower hourly wages and no legacy costs. Legacy costs for GM USA have made profits at US plants nearly zero. Of the $72.00 an hour $28.00 is wages, pension, health, layoff pools are the other $44.00. In other words a Mexican Truck costs 150% less to make because of the benefits the UAW gets not counting the hourly wage difference. So who causes the jobs go to Mexico.
If the government had let GM go tits up they would still be manufacturing vehicles just like they are today right here in the US but for a fraction of the cost because the Unions contracts would have gone out the window with the bankruptcy. Everyone is entitled to make a decent living and that's the way it should be but the greed and corruption that goes on is sinking our ship and we all better learn Chineese.

Cole
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Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 02-25-2010 at 03:00 PM..
Old 02-25-2010, 02:42 PM
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Canada and Mexico are not part of the US. Maybe not as bad as China but not the US.
My father is retired GM; 44 years. I know more about the union than I would ever care to. He hated it as his generation had a good work ethic. The union destroyed that. He also started with GM before the UAW and tells horrific stories of the conditions they worked under. Seems there is no good solution, just a wild swing back and forth ...

I'll add some technical BBS content. He worked in a foundry where they used sand molds to make castings. Horrific environment.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8

Last edited by RarlyL8; 02-25-2010 at 03:02 PM..
Old 02-25-2010, 03:00 PM
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Putting this stuff on a disposable $2k rice motor is one thing; question is, would u put any of this on the $20k++ lump sitting in the back of your ride?


Not on my engine, however, is the ricer and company that are the driving force behind this.

There's a HUGE customer base outhere besides the "Good Old 911's"

$250.00 x 400 turbos is a nice chunk of money, while I was there 9 Turbos, 7 intercoolers, 4 wastegate and 6 Radiators were sold just with one phone call, I was in shock! I have another friend that was grandfather into a distributor level for precision and he sells 1 maybe 2 a month ! Different quality and performance but we are talking about price.

This is everywhere you look at Soon we will be

"Another 3 er world country"
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:33 PM
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I have to agree. And least not forget the mid and senior level management at these companies. The salaries and compensation of these "employees", they are employees, dwarf those of the greedy floor workers.
Old 02-25-2010, 03:41 PM
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Folks Made in the USA is dying. People in our own country will buy "cheaper" vs the Made in USA label.. It goes one step further.. I flipped and seen on CNN where a East Coast writer said>> It's just around the corner not "IF" but when the USA will default on it's debt.

1) In post World War II, the World wanted our TV's are refridgerators and so on.. Whirlpool and other companies went to Japan to buy precison cast gear boxes. The public started to accept a few imported manufactured goods here and there. In the early '70 one could look at the home electronics era swing from Germany and the USA to Japan. Look up the history of McIntosh and Pioneer. Clarion bought McIntosh..

2) As a people we accept going to Walmart, where 80% of the goods are coming from overseas. It's not just Walmart, but go to your local mall and read the labels. IPhones and Ipods are made in China. IBM sells there Thinkpads to China. It comes down to us as People in this nation..

3) The lastest thing that I have recently scene was one of our LARGEST production CNC Machine Shops, with nearly 200 stations, had a down turn with orders. This caused a rift in the money backers.. Banks and financial institutions that LEND.. Guess what hapened, a company funded by China came in and secured the equipment and debt. Within 180 days they shut the US operation down rigged up all the equipment and sent it overseas. Now the company is cranking out Aerospace parts ON contract that they secured with the private purchase. Hundreds of employees lost there jobs. And now we will be flying in planes made at the expense of these workers.. Union or not..

4) You see all the "green" jobs being created. ALL the specialized manufacturing, solar cells and wind power are moving overseas. Here's another story. The permits to install those large wind-generation towers take year and years to get the permits and infrastructure going. Right now it is cheaper to take down a known working power head and put up another unit. These are million dollar gearboxes and generators. The Germans and Japan have a corner on this market. Right now in my local Port, we have parts to build these windmills that cannot be put up unless they are US made.. These companies are casting AND precision machining all the massive parts overseas and are now quietly shipping them over here to be assembled.

It's all messed up..
Old 02-25-2010, 04:07 PM
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unsubscribing, this is all too true and depressing...
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Old 02-25-2010, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
$250.00 x 400 turbos is a nice chunk of money
$100,000 is a lot of money, what is the margin? You can sell a million of them and go broke with no margin. That's what we're looking at here with this ultra-cheap crap. No quality, no profit, just volume.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by werk i View Post
while i don't argue the accuracy of some of the statements made by this anonymous contributor, i still do not trust statements posted on the web by unknown contributors. If you're going to rip into a corporation, be prepared to back it up and grow a spine.

Everyone is aware of the out-sourcing and associated quality assurance issues that have cropped up in some cases. How do we know the blogger isn't from a competitor or a recently laid off employee trying exact some revenge?
+++++1
Old 02-25-2010, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cole930 View Post
In my research I found that the avg. hourly wage for a UAW plant floor worker is $72.00 an hour with benefits.
A few years ago the local GM plant was negotiating their new contract and we were doing work in the plant at the time. The negotiations came down to a contract provision that provided either a golf membership or a personal trainer for each plant UAW worker.
The present administration is owned by labor unions and we are going to be paying for their portion of the tax on their Cadillac health care plans so they don't loose any of there $72.00 pr. hr. The irony of all this is the Labor Unions are driving American manufacturing to India, China, and Mexico are the first to ***** about all the jobs going overseas or to Mexico.
Cole, I work for Ford Motor Company. Let me bring you up-to-date on the auto industry.
The top wage of a production worker is $26/hr excluding benefits. Skilled trades is $30/hr (new hires will make far less). The health care has been cut over the past few years and now the UAW administers the retirement and health benefits rather than the auto companies. It's a decent wage but trust me, none of those guys are driving 930s on what they make.
As for work rules, many trades have been eliminated. When I was at GM the trades wouldn't "cross over" but that was 30 years ago. In my 21 years as Ford, I never had to wait for, say, an electrician to unplug an electrical cord so a machine repairman could remove a part behind it. The machine repairman just unplugged the cord and went about his job.
As for the GM "negotiation" you mentioned, well, I'm sorry but that's just not true. GM's been closing plants for 20 years. If the local UAW tried to extort personal trainers or golf memberships out of management, the plant would close, period. In fact, it's been quite the opposite: the union locals at all Big 3 plants have been amenable to changing work rules and classifications as the plants compete with each other to stay open and get new products to manufacture.
EmptyGarage, just so you know, I earn every penny that Ford pays me. You'd be shocked at the amount of casual overtime I work.
As I see it, the problem with the overall economy has been that there is no industrial policy set by any administration, Republican or Democratic. First we allowed steel to go offshore in the mid-1970's, and the rest of manufacturing has been slowly going with it. Manufacturing, especially auto manufacturing, plays a big role providing good paying jobs, which drive the economy. If we want to see the future, all we have to do is look at the decline of Great Britain as a world economic power to see what's in store for us.
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Last edited by 911nut; 02-25-2010 at 06:04 PM..
Old 02-25-2010, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juan ruiz View Post

This is what the turbo looks like
Juan -

I'll tell you what I see. This product represents outright, in your face, theft of intellectual property and predatory pricing within our market. These fakes are misrepresented in the marketplace as Garrett products. They are on the same level as fake Rolex watches.

Both are happening because China doesn't care to follow our laws or those of the greater global trading community.
Old 02-25-2010, 07:41 PM
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Paul,

I certainly respect you opinion, your right to post it, and your input.

I have many UAW friends from GM Ft.Wayne and work with them often. I would be more than happy to post a copy of my GM contractors badge if needed. Joe Smith from the reclamation dept. at Ft. Wayne and I were in Arlington together just a couple weeks ago for a week on a project. Joe and I have worked together for about 12 years on different projects at the plant and we are good friends. Joe has a beautiful home probably $300-$350K, a lake cottage, 2GM vehicles within 2 years old, a Chevy Duce drag car with 2 spare 454 engines, enclosed hauler, a motor home, and 2 new Harley's. Sorry but that kinda makes my 30 year old $16,000 930 look like the Clampets.

Every part of what I posted was my personal experience and the truth. I understand the union now administers pensions and benefits but we both know where the money comes from and it's not from the union. The extortion, your phrase not mine but true, I mentioned was 2 contracts ago at GMFWA. The $74 an hour figure was from an internal GM web site and can be confirmed in the congressional record of the hearings for the GM bailout. The GM Metal Fab experience was probably 7-8 years ago and is the God's truth because I didn't hear about it I lived it.

I am not some elitist snob that drives a 930 Porsche and casts aspersions on the poor little people. I are the little people and I have paid my dues. I shoveled walks and mowed lawn until I was 14 and then I shoveled coal for $2 a ton until I got job pumping gas after school and on weekends while I was in high school I then went to work in a "union" tire factory on third shift my senior year. When I graduated I voluntarily went to war for my country and after the service I worked in a "union" grey iron foundry and went to school nights for 7 years with a wife and three kids until I got my degree. I raised 3 beautiful college educated daughters and designed and built my own house from the ground up. I'm 67 now I have a junk heart and cancer and I still work full time so don't blow smoke up my ass about those poor, had working UAW workers I've worked around them in nearly every auto plant in the US, Mexico, and Canada and one thing we both know is they don't kill themelves, not buy a long shot.

Above all I'm an honest man and I'm sure you are too. But, although I am a proponent of the need for unions to promte safe and decent working conditions for workers they have completely lost sight of their original intent. Many unions are completely out of control. The greed an corruption of these unions has contributed in a very large part to the extreme cost of manufacturing in the US and thus are responsible, in a large part, for our jobs going to other countries.

Oh!! two things in closing: If I were UAW would I go from my old 930 to a 965(nice car you have) and secondly, have you ever played a round on the poor UAW's 40 million dollar private golf cource in the UP

"ENOUGH LET"S TALK ABOUT PORSCHES"

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 02-25-2010 at 08:14 PM..
Old 02-25-2010, 07:53 PM
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I used to live in China 2001-2008, did even import 1989 Carrera 3.2 to there due to "love" in these old solid cars

I have friends in Finland who produce some products what Chinese do as well. Latest call came form a friend who manufacures hydraulic fire wood cutting machines. He asked me, how it is possible the same model (or very close) he has developed, is now for sale in hardware shop in Finland and retail price of it is less than hydraulic cylinder he buys? It is sad but true stories, we do not realize what 100% Chinese made product costs. In general, pliers you buy in US; China maker sells them for 1.00, they are for sale in China for 3.00 and in US they will cost 10.00. For consumer products, it is not really Chinese who are screwing markets and getting all that profit, but it is us Westerners who like to make more profit per unit. And this is specially big retail chain in Western countries, they care not factory workers.

I am working for energy sector. As you know, we all blame China to pollute that much and building every year new coal fired plants equalling some 6x installed power capacity of Finland. Lot of that is needed due to we move production to China. And I am of opinion that China will not change anything in coming 10 years, but Western Governments must start to put brakes to companies moving production to these countries, like add emission tax equivalent to emission increase between "original" country and "new country", this is only way to make any change.

Sorry this become a bit off topic, but looks like I am not only one.

Regards, Harri

PS. it took me trip to 24 different offices to get 911 registered there and 4 offices to get it sold. And due to it was "too old", I needed to inspect it every 6 mths, cost me 30US+3 cigarettes :-)
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:12 PM
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Cheer up!

Cheer up guys!
You are not alone - we've got the same problems in Australia.
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Bill
1988 Carrera - 3.6 engine (with ITBs, COPs, MS3X) and a whole set of turbo body panels waiting in the attic.
Day job ... www.sspowdercoat.com.au
Memories: '68 912, '72 911T, '80 911SC, '84 911, '85 930, '86 930, '87 911
Old 02-25-2010, 08:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #39 (permalink)
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cole930 View Post
Paul,

has a beautiful home probably $300-$350K, a lake cottage, 2GM vehicles within 2 years old, a Chevy Duce drag car with 2 spare 454 engines, enclosed hauler, a motor home, and 2 new Harley's.....have you ever played a round on the poor UAW's 40 million dollar private golf cource in the UP
Cole, let's understand a few things here.
You are essentially an outsider to the auto business. Your opinions are shaped mainly by what people tell you.
Back in the day, when the Big 3 were the only game in town and made scads of money, there was lots of overtime for hourly and salary workers to make. When I was starting out I knew a lot of "old timers" who all seemed to own vacation property, for example. During this period is when the UAW built the Black Lake conference center (it's in the lower peninsula, by the way) , the one with the golf course, when union membership was at an all time high level.
Now the overtime has dried up. The UAW is trying to sell Black Lake. Things are different.
Seems like a lot of people don't understand how the economy works. When there's lots of jobs that pay a living wage (which is becoming a scarce commodity, by the way) and companies have profits to expand their businesses with and people have extra money from working extra, then employment goes up and everyone's business improves. We all get healthy. To hear people ***** about what a line worker makes at an auto plant is silly. A lot of those jobs are gone and economically speaking, the fun is about to begin for our children. We had all better hope that this gets turned around.
__________________
Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 02-26-2010, 04:58 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #40 (permalink)
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