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-   -   Garrett in trouble? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/528175-garrett-trouble.html)

juan ruiz 02-24-2010 07:34 PM

Garrett in trouble?
 
I'm sure a lot of you have seen this already since it's on a bunch of different boards but just in case:

Quote:

I work at Garrett Turbos, now called Honeywell Turbo Technologies which there so proud of. When Cliff Garrett Owned Garrett He used to brown bag his lunch everyday and cared for a quality Product. If he knew what Honeywell has done now he would turn over in his grave. Honeywell bought Garrett In 1998 or 1999. After this they opened up a turbo testing lab in shanghai China and quickly moved there turbo overhaul to Mexicali Mexico, quickly after Garrett overhaul went belly-up. So they moved there whole production to Mexicali Mexico, as if that first failure was not a sign.

Garrett Turbos made a quality product for a fair price. A turbo is a precision instrument. Garrett turbos was part of Garrett Air Research (on 190th st. In Torrance ca.) Where they have a huge facility designing turbine engines, and so on. Most of the senior technicians in our main turbo facility (Lomita Blvd Torrance ca) came from our air research. If youíre building jet engines a turbo is not all that difficult. Well Cliff Garrett dies. At that time ALL production of Garrett Turbos was at Lomita Torrance ca. Also all engineering and research was there as well. After we were bought and production was sent to Mexico to save costs. Our production numbers doubled. And cost was cut in half our failure rate tripled. Well who cares Honeywell is making money and lots of it. Turbos are considered Honeywellís golden egg.

They feel that turbos are going to take over big. Which it already has in the diesel market. We make ford diesel turbos, daf, Chevrolet, some Audi, vw, fiat, Perkins. Millions of turbos. And there now all coming from china and Mexico. Well up until lately the company figured if the product was designed in the US and assembled in Mexico we would be ok. Well to further there profit and **** the customer once again....the LAST of what makes turbo American leaves in January 2011. We will close the doors to the Torrance Lab. In Torrance we did all our racing turbos (wrc stuff, Audi racing etc..) then in the garret garage we did the turbos you people buy for your Subaruís.

Actually I take that back. They take turbos that were made on a production line somewhere else in the world, and change a couple of parts on a bench in Torrance (wheels, housing..etc) and send it to you the customer saying it was made in the us.....no it was not it was just repackaged and altered a little. Well as of Jan 2011 all your turbos will be made in Mexico or china or Czech Republic. This is the last Garrett facility in the United States.

We have huge law suits pending due to turbo failures. GM is probably going to leave us.... ford has already sued us. Caterpillar has one of the largest recalls in garret history in the process. Our name is becoming ****. The last few VERY smart guys left in the company are being fired to save costs, but see our profit is already good.....they just want more. Please donít spend 1500$ on a gt35r. Now that itís costing Honeywell less to build turbos do you think you will see a smaller bill when you order there product? NO!.

They are going to charge you even more for even less. There are countless procedures that are being terminated everyday that made our turbos THE BEST. They keep cutting corner after corner. Did you know that we shave metal off our turbine and compressor housings until they are at the EXTREME minimum needed to contain in the event of failure they are shaving every nickel off the cost of a turbo. Did you know that 2000$ gt40 you buy is all mark up. I wonít dare say the actual cost to the company in fear of a lawsuit but lets just say your sales tax is more then the production cost.

Do not buy these turbos. Borg Warner and mitsu are trying there best to compete with us making a quality product. Honeywell is using its big name to back junky turbos Like Toyota is starting to do. I guarantee in the next 8 months you will see a huge decline in quality. All designing and production is in CHINA AND MEXICO. Honeywell is taking back all there benefits they used to supply us with as employees. That way when they lay us off its as cheap as possible.

Instead of saying "Well after we take a hit laying those people off we will make tons" they are just taking back all there benefits so they walk away clean and clear. We used to get a severance package. Which they just took away. One of the head engineers involved in the t3 project. (Designing the first t3) he is still with our company. he was supposed to get 44 weeks of pay if he ever got layed off (30 days and 1 week for every year with the company. 40 years with the company)Due to the new Honeywell rules he gets only 16 weeks pay they stole all that pack after promising it to him for 40 years.

My fingers and about to fall off typing all this and I am heated so I donít care about grammar Iím concerned about you people not supporting a **** company. Take your business elsewhere. Somewhere where you will get what your money pays for. Have a nice day and donít forget if you hear the name HTT Honeywell Turbo Technologies Stay away

(They still use the garret stamp on the turbos)

DailyDriven'88 02-24-2010 08:49 PM

Never read this statement before but I can see how it can be true. I used to work at the Honeywell Aerospace Torrance facility, until I got fed up with management's shotty work ethics and a bunch of other bs and quit. Practically everything we welded there was sent to or being prep'd for the mexicali facility. They would fly people up from the mexicali plant and have them watch over your shoulders with video cameras and notebooks so when the part(s) went to them for production, they would know how to assemble. You were literally training someone else to take your job! Yea, that sat well with lots of folks..and this was just the tip of the iceberg!

930gt-40r 02-24-2010 09:17 PM

Dammit, just bought a 40R to... Its a few years old though, so I should be in the clear.

slow&rusty 02-24-2010 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juan ruiz (Post 5204098)
Did you know that 2000$ gt40 you buy is all mark up. I wonít dare say the actual cost to the company in fear of a lawsuit but lets just say your sales tax is more then the production cost.

Wow..so it costs $350 to make a GT40

I cringed when I read the piece on the T3 engineer and how they took away or slashed his benefits after 40years of service.

This sucks
Yasin

matty74 02-25-2010 12:18 AM

I'm sticking with KKK

juan ruiz 02-25-2010 03:19 AM

MANY companies are doing this is not just Garret.

Presicion Turbos are an alternative.

DDDD 02-25-2010 05:14 AM

This is happening in all consumer products.

After the free trade agreements pushed for two decades by politicians on both sides of the aisle, ALL consumer products with the exception of some specialty items here in America ARE GOING OVERSEAS. Along with the jobs.

I have been telling my wife that soon it will be almost impossible to buy any items of quality no matter where you shop.

RarlyL8 02-25-2010 05:52 AM

"Hear that sucking sound? It's all your jobs going to Mexico".

Ross Perot's remark as Bill Clinton signed NAFTA.

Our government has permanently screwed us all and shows no sign of changing course. Toyota is another shining example of this trend. The bar was just set a huge notch lower.

WERK I 02-25-2010 05:55 AM

While I don't argue the accuracy of some of the statements made by this anonymous contributor, I still do not trust statements posted on the web by unknown contributors. If you're going to rip into a corporation, be prepared to back it up and grow a spine.

Everyone is aware of the out-sourcing and associated quality assurance issues that have cropped up in some cases. How do we know the blogger isn't from a competitor or a recently laid off employee trying exact some revenge?

copbait73 02-25-2010 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDDD (Post 5204461)
This is happening in all consumer products.

After the free trade agreements pushed for two decades by politicians on both sides of the aisle, ALL consumer products with the exception of some specialty items here in America ARE GOING OVERSEAS. Along with the jobs.

I have been telling my wife that soon it will be almost impossible to buy any items of quality no matter where you shop.

David-

What you say is true. Folks look around, this may come to you also.

I had 36 years uninterrupted employment in North American OEM turbocharging; product development, design, applications, technical sales and service. That ended one year ago almost to the day. I'm still not working.

I'm not at liberty to discuss the specific statements by this contributor because I signed a 35 page legal document threatening my future retirement if I make public statements about the company (given the same conditions what would you do?).

964 T #304 02-25-2010 07:06 AM

This (shipping products to mexico for assembly) has been going on for years. For the Ford pu truck owners, I use to be in the trucking business and would pick up ford pu truck frames in ohio and bring them back to Mc Allen Texas as a back haul , and the ford assembly plant accross the border in Mexico would send a flat bed trailer accross the border to Mc allen and pick them up from my trailer to be assembled in their plant in Mexico. This was in the late 80s and 90s.

stephen930 02-25-2010 07:30 AM

Its the big circle jerk of free trade. The jobs leave ou country and go to a much cheaper county. There standard of living goes up as does their prices. The US $ devalues making it more cost effective to bring the jobs and work back to the US.
My company just closed down the India call center because we really didn't realize the major savings as promised and the call center quality was not so good, so 90 jobs just came back to the US.
You will see more of this over the next 10 years. Doesn't help a lot of the folks who get screwed in the transition, which really sucks but hey this is a capitalist society, if you want job guarantees go live in France.

pkracer21j 02-25-2010 07:43 AM

Glad I use Comp Turbo...it was a toss up between them and precision.

DDDD 02-25-2010 07:49 AM

I have read a lot of stories about major and small companies alike basically producing shoddier products due to the economy. Clothing contains less fibre, peanut butter jars are smaller, crappy components replace solid components, ect. Everything sourced from China or Mexico.

The problem is that free trade did not help us, it helped everybody else.

stephen930 02-25-2010 08:13 AM

Well you can pretty much blame the guys on this board who do stuff like buy OBX headers then since they make these companies profitable....I personally am holding out for Brian's...

930gt-40r 02-25-2010 08:17 AM

Well it is our own government's fault- not going political and I got no problems with anyone involved, but... Taxes and unions are the dominant reason to really push production out of here. There are other major factors- like ridiculous cheap/slave labor from other countries. Again, not saying that unions are bad, but Mexico/China labor is certainly kinder to the balance sheet and for our purposes not very preferable. For the every day crap like shoes, clothing, toasters, and $hit like that- who cares- but for a 140K+ rpm turbo, I would like to have made in USA stamped on it. What pisses me off the most though is the gov's overbearing tax on the production companies (and all other companies for that matter)- manufacturing and production are the bread and butter of society and the government tortures them with taxes to the point where they have to move.

krasuskyp 02-25-2010 08:35 AM

I manage a portfolio of loans to assorted manufacturers, most all of them had their sales eroded to Chinese competition.

Like Stephen said, a number of them are reclaiming those sales (and sometimes at higher pricing) as those that left were getting crap for quality.

Never ceases to amaze me those who will compromise quality to save a few cents.

FU and your COMP TURBO PETEY!!! 8-) (get me the contact info you hoor! heh heh heh I'm dooomed)...

930gt-40r 02-25-2010 08:54 AM

uh-oh... Paul+ comp turbo?? maybe headers soon?

juicersr 02-25-2010 09:13 AM

If u want to understand Chinese quality, try to buy any tool at Harbor Freight that lasts more than 6 months (or less)... punches that dont punch, drill bits that break and dull after a couple of uses, hand grinders whose plastic case distintegrates from the vibration after a dozen or so uses... and the list goes on and on. For every ship bringing this crap to Harbor freight, there must be another one going back full of the broken crap which they will recycle and sell again.

I just pony up from the start now and buy the best stuff when i can. When it comes to stuff like Turbos and important items, you have to do due diligence to make sure stuff like the above with Garrett isn't taking place.

However, everyone also has to realize that the good stuff cost more and put your money where you know it should go.

I heard someone complaining about the price of $500 billet injector blocks made by Turbokraft. Gimmee break, so don't support a guy making quality stuff which works, and go buy the Chinese junk for $250 on ebay made with 20 bucks worth of shoddy aluminum (or worse) and 3 bucks of Chiang Mai labor, and then go whining around here when they crack, melt or otherwise self-destruct which was a forgone conclusion. How many times do you have to see stuff like the QSC pistons and cylinders 'quality' control issue before you learn your lesson (ask Henry Schmidt about his attempts at dealing with this Chinese company on that one)??

juan ruiz 02-25-2010 10:00 AM

After I received the email with this information I start to think about all of the manager meetings that I go regarding of our operations moving to China or elsewhere, simply put, to be competitive there's no other option.

Usually I don't drive to Miami since that seems like another country all together, while I was down there today, I called one of my good friends that sell everything you can imagine car related and you guess it from China.

Here I was looking at a beautiful turbo a T70 with .67 hot housing total cost out the door $225.00 :eek: that is not the disturbing part, the Garrett's internals will work fine inside this turbo, a GT 45 $ 400.00 want an intercooler $100.00 want a copy cat Tial waste gate or blow off valve 60mm! $85.00 again the OEM internals will fit perfectly fine inside the unit, copy cat HKS $ 35.00, Porsche H4 Headlight projector lights $ 65.00 !! and the list was endless from Waldro fuel pumps to boost controllers.

Today reality has set in :rolleyes: no one seems to care, how is Tial and all others are going to compete against this ????

I Know that "QUALITY" is always the escape Goat but so far he has sold over 400 turbos and so far no one single failure.

This is what the turbo looks like
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g24/TurboWax/21.jpg


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