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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJL View Post
I use a single Aeromotive A1000 like this;



Its not noisy, 600lbs/hour at 45psi, -10 fittings. Rated to something like 1000hp. Self-priming but I mounted it down under the fuel cell.
I had one of those on my 69 camaro and it was way quieter than the 2 -044s on my '87 C3.2.
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Old 02-27-2010, 07:20 AM
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GJF GJF is offline
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I have a A1000 in my car. Been using it for 8 to 9 years along with a pump controller. The original pump 8 years ago failed due to the older pumps were not compatable with ethanol. The new pumps are ethanol friendly and have been reliable for me with no problems. Some of the mustang guys have been running Walbro 225lph pumps in parrlel each pump is good for 500 HP. They are extremely quiet. I would use eiher but I am currently at 700HP and the Aeromotive is good to 850HP using the A1000. They do have bigger pumps that support 1000+ HP.
Old 02-27-2010, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GJF View Post
I have a A1000 in my car. Been using it for 8 to 9 years along with a pump controller. The original pump 8 years ago failed due to the older pumps were not compatable with ethanol. The new pumps are ethanol friendly and have been reliable for me with no problems. Some of the mustang guys have been running Walbro 225lph pumps in parrlel each pump is good for 500 HP. They are extremely quiet. I would use eiher but I am currently at 700HP and the Aeromotive is good to 850HP using the A1000. They do have bigger pumps that support 1000+ HP.
Ger, what exactly is a 'pump controller' and when is it needed? What psi (or lph) is best for most higher HP EFI application? For some reason i had 50-60psi as a number in my head from before, but since the A1000 is rated 45 psi this must be wrong.

Also, does Ethanol in modern gas in any amount degrade older model fuel pumps like the Bosch 44, unless they are made specifically for ethanol?

BTW, was speaking to Eddie Bello on this subject amongst many this weekend, and since he is running ethanol in his car now, he went from a 4 pump (!!!) system to a single pump... forgot to ask him which one it was tho.
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Old 03-02-2010, 07:34 PM
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The pump controller just slows down the pump below an adjustable setting so it doesn't overheat the pump and the fuel (saves parts). All EFI fuel pumps are rated at 45 psi because the fuel injectors are rated static at 45 psi. I run 45 at static but there is a vacuum at idle it drops the fuel pressure the same amount of vacuum drawn. (if you are at 45 static and you have 5 inches of vacuum then you should see 40 psi at vacuum. If it is more then it will be even lower) The A1000 will handle 850HP and is a great pump for your car. When the car gets on boost the pressure rises by the amount of boost ( static 45 + 22psi boost = 67 psi of fuel pressure) the A1000 will hit 90psi. But to be safe I wouldn't run it no more than 80 psi total. Which would be 35psi of boost. If you want more than that stagged injectors would be needed. And another fuel system revamp.

Older pumps were not designed to run with ethanol. Even the older A1000 pumps. That is why I had to change mine original pump. The new A1000's were redesigned and have a much more efficient motor and the vane materials are able to withstand the ethanol additive todays fuels have in them.

The 044's are great pumps but I don't know if they are compatible with todays fuels?

Eddie is a friend of mine from way back. I help his cousin out from time to time in his race fabrication shop. He is the real deal, as calm as they come and is focused really well on his tuning.

If he is running E85 then he is probably running a big Walbro pump simular to the Methanol pumps.
I was hoping to see you guys last weekend. I had plan on the first scheduled event because we planned a trip for my kids birthdays. Hopefully next run will not be a problem with our schedule.
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:12 PM
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Ger, thanks for your (and everyone's) excellent advice, as always. So far you've helped me with better injectors and FPR, don't be surprised if i'm asking next about staged injectors, LOL

Rather than roll the dice and spend $$ on the Bosch 44's which may ultimately fail again anyhow, decided to go with the A1000. The fact that it has proved 'bullet proof' on your monster for almost 10 years and is ethanol impervious is good enough for me. The A1000 is pretty much the same price as two B44's anyway, so it's really a no brainer.

Right now, i am right at about 500 to the wheels. Is it ok to run just the A1000 by itself with my aeoromotive FPR, or do i need a fuel pump controller?

BTW, it is rare these days to meet someone like Bello. He has the quiet intensity and self-assuredness of a neurosurgeon collegue of mine, incredibly focused and no-nonsense when it comes to understanding what it takes to get the most out of these motors.
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Last edited by juicersr; 03-03-2010 at 08:52 AM..
Old 03-03-2010, 08:40 AM
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It really is needed if you drive stop and go traffic to keep the pump cool. Remember you have 1 pump doing what two could. You could get away with it to a degree, it is just good insurance to run one.
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:58 AM
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wow, most people I know with A1000 pumps have seen them fail in the first year. maybe it's user error or they don't have the voltage stepper. These were daily driver cars.
Old 03-04-2010, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmatera View Post
wow, most people I know with A1000 pumps have seen them fail in the first year. maybe it's user error or they don't have the voltage stepper. These were daily driver cars.
Any comments on this? Why the fcuk would u need a 'voltage stepper' for a simple GD fuel pump???

Is the A1000 best for WOT cars, and prone to failure unless a 'fuel pump controller' is used?

Hmmm, maybe i should just have some plug and play Bosch 44's in my glove box next to my spare fuses
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Old 03-04-2010, 06:29 AM
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Big single pumps get very hot when supplying 900hp worth of fuel to an engine needing only 50hp to drive down the road. Heat kills motors. The voltage stepper slows the pump down to allow it to live. Why do you think most / all factory fuel pumps only manage ~500hp by themselves? Porsche used twin pumps probably because the technology was not around for high power singles, or maybe because they knew a big single in daily use will fail. The small amout of ethanol in your fuel can be combatted by using a bit of marvel mystery oil at every other fill-up to help lubricate all the moving parts.
Old 03-04-2010, 06:37 AM
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The 044 in my mustang survived 3 years of straight E85 without trouble... But when the car sat for a year the pump never started again. I never used the marvel oil, but I will now that i'm converting my 930 to E85.
Old 03-04-2010, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmatera View Post
Big single pumps get very hot when supplying 900hp worth of fuel to an engine needing only 50hp to drive down the road. Heat kills motors. The voltage stepper slows the pump down to allow it to live. Why do you think most / all factory fuel pumps only manage ~500hp by themselves? Porsche used twin pumps probably because the technology was not around for high power singles, or maybe because they knew a big single in daily use will fail. The small amout of ethanol in your fuel can be combatted by using a bit of marvel mystery oil at every other fill-up to help lubricate all the moving parts.
Thanks D, but I always thought that the reason that the factory used two fuel pumps on turbos was that the CIS system needs continuous very high fuel pressures, around 100 psi or something. Correct me if am wrong.

Over a year ago, when i was replacing my pumps, everyone said that one Bosch 44 would be pefectly adequate for the relatively lower EFI fuel pressures.

Like everything else with these cars, nothing is ever simple.
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:01 AM
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I thought that is why you have a return circuit so the regulator rejects the fuel it does not need to keep the fuel pump from failing because of dead heading and heating up.
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:05 AM
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i'm sure the high pressure was a good reason porsche ran twin pumps. It shared the load as well. Big single pumps are not street friendly, never were and still aren't. Hence voltage steppers and now they've gone as far as mounting them inside the fuel tank (A) to keep them cool (B) because pumps are pushers not suckers and (C) it quiets them down
Old 03-04-2010, 08:43 PM
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Porsche Crest Update to a solid EFI package

There are always variables... start with solid components!

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Old 03-05-2010, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
There are always variables... start with solid components!

Thanks Kris, those are sweet injector blocks, but i am using a Carrera manifold.

Decided to run the A1000 with a controller through braided line back to filter... no fcuking more fuel issues after this. May go with staged injectors next, so will need this set-up anyway.
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 03-05-2010, 10:50 AM
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Fuel pumps

Sorry to hear about your fuel troubles.

We're typically running the stock 930 pumps on our EFI conversions, no issues other than they're just getting old. 930s are 21-34 years old by now -- I figure if a pump's lasted that long, you got your money's worth, right?

And if the pumps fail, it's more cost effective to replace with new genuine Bosch -044 pumps (there are some knock-offs on eBay).

Wiring and relays also require scrutiny. They're just as old as the pumps, and we've seen several '80s 930s lately that could stand to get a new chassis harness because stock wires were getting brittle.

FWIW, we've used fuel pressure as an input condition in the EFI, i.e. monitor fuel pressure rising with manifold pressure, and if fuel pressure decreases then "X" (open wastegate solenoid, pull timing, increase injector duty cycle -- whatever your strategy). It's just another layer of making it as fail-safe as possible. Maybe your EFI system has this capability?

Another thing we've found from logging is that the stock pumps easily support more than 500rwhp. We monitored pressure on the last EFI Twin Turbo and there was no shortage of fuel pressure during repeated 650awhp dyno runs.

Cheers,
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Old 03-05-2010, 01:38 PM
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Oh, and to quiet the -044 fuel pump, consider the 964 fuel pump rubber housing/sleeve. It silences the pump very well, has the cut outs for the wiring connectors and inlet & outlets.
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Old 03-05-2010, 01:40 PM
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Juice,
Make sure you run a filter before the pump and one before the injectors. I run a 12304 pre-filter and 12301 post filter from Aeromotive. Here is a shot where I mounted the pump.
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Old 03-05-2010, 02:52 PM
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Old 03-05-2010, 02:54 PM
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Maybe your EFI system has this capability?
Cheers,
Most good EFI systems do.
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Old 03-05-2010, 03:32 PM
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