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How can i get bullet-proof fuel delivery in EFI

Well, my practically new Bosch 44 pump gave up the ghost in the last 24 hours, screwing me out of taking the car to winterpalooza this weekend.

When i was trouble-shooting the old TEC 1 system we had on the car when i first got her, I replaced the two CIS pumps with the single Bosch 44 on the recommendations of most of the knowledgeable people here. The car has run great for the last year or so with this pump.

However, in retrospect, there were maybe tell-tale signs that the pump was failing, or being strained as some of the issue i have had over the past week were there before, but less pronounced.. occ poor throttle inputs, etc

My tuning guy, had always been worried about running a single pump on a car making over 500whp, (as he tunes high HP muscle cars and nearly always goes with two pumps) But, he always defers to me as the 'Porsche expert' (LOL) and was the case here when we went with a single Bosch 44

Soooo, my question is, faced with the fact that this single B 44 failed after little over a year, what should i put in to make sure fuel pump never gets 'over worked' again, as it seems like that was the issue with the single pump?

What is the answer? Two pumps in parallel? In tandem? Two Bosch 44s?

Thanks guys as always.
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:34 AM
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Turbo Hooligan
 
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buy a 993. they seem to be fairly bullet proof.



I'm sorry bro, I couldn't resist.
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Old 02-26-2010, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkracer21j View Post
buy a 993. they seem to be fairly bullet proof.

I'm sorry bro, I couldn't resist.
LOL Pete, glad to know you're always there when i need u.

Think i gonna run sequential pumps like Gabe is doing... two Bosche 44's should do it (unless they are made in China)

Goddamn these cars can surely piss u off like nothing else.
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 02-26-2010, 06:38 AM
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Well the 930 comes stock with an 044 from the factory- I would use two in line 044s, my buddy ran 10 flat in his civic with the old one from my car and a second one in front of it. Car laid down somewhere around 750 to the tires.
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
Well the 930 comes stock with an 044 from the factory- I would use two in line 044s, my buddy ran 10 flat in his civic with the old one from my car and a second one in front of it. Car laid down somewhere around 750 to the tires.
Thanks Kris, pretty much decided to run two Forty-fohs
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 02-26-2010, 07:54 AM
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fuel pumps

i use dual wahlberg 255 lph pumps mounted on a fore precision billet fuel pump hat mounted inside the fuel tank. easy conversion. pumps are very quiet and the fuel pump hat will hold up to three pumps. i have a fuel pressure gauge mounted in the clock opening. i have efi but only use a manually regulated 44psi. the car is a 911 with an all aluminum 434 sbc and develops almost 585 at the flywheel. no affiliation with fore precision and they are located in nc.
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Old 02-26-2010, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lin7310948 View Post
i use dual wahlberg 255 lph pumps mounted on a fore precision billet fuel pump hat mounted inside the fuel tank. easy conversion. pumps are very quiet and the fuel pump hat will hold up to three pumps. i have a fuel pressure gauge mounted in the clock opening. i have efi but only use a manually regulated 44psi. the car is a 911 with an all aluminum 434 sbc and develops almost 585 at the flywheel. no affiliation with fore precision and they are located in nc.
Lin, thanks for the input. As someone who is obviously making $hitloads of power, can u tell me why you went with this set-up when theoretically two Bosch 44's should handle just about anything? I looked at the FP site, and they do mostly mustang stuff, can u show any pix of how you mounted this on your 930 tank? Does it just replace the fuel level sender on top?
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 02-26-2010, 08:31 AM
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Two Bosch 44s running into a relay that will shut the engine down if it reads lower than xxx set pressure ?
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Old 02-26-2010, 08:35 AM
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Justin: Research what RUF uses he's been doing it for years with EFI.Sorry to hear your lady let you down.
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Old 02-26-2010, 08:39 AM
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pumps

i used this system to eliminate the external fuel tank fittings beneath the car and the associated noises of the pumps...not the 044s but loud aftermarket pumps. space and location are not problems with this and the pumps are easy to remove if need be. i used this hat because it was the right height to position the fuel pickup about one quarter inch off the bottom of the tank. the fuel pump pick up tubes have small filters attached. also i modified the tank to accomodate a front mounted radiator so it was very easy to modify the tank for the fuel pump hat while i was doing this.
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Old 02-26-2010, 08:59 AM
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Lin, pretty cool set-up. Not sure the fuel pump noise is really an issue when u have a zork tho!

Juan - i may do this

Rob - Yeah, it's like she's got friggin stage fright or something, $hit like this only seems to happen before an event. Just the other week after i put finished putting the splitter on, she was running up to 130-140 with nary a stumble...go figure
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 02-26-2010, 09:48 AM
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i posted this 044 link on the other thread too.

PORSCHE 0580254044 FUEL PUMP 911.928,930 : eBay Motors (item 370270914849 end time Mar-05-10 05:17:44 PST)
Old 02-26-2010, 09:57 AM
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I'm running one BIG single pump and I'm always thinking about this ! no fuel Kaput !
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Old 02-26-2010, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juan ruiz View Post
I'm running one BIG single pump and I'm always thinking about this ! no fuel Kaput !
Juan, what r u running?
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'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 02-26-2010, 11:16 AM
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one big pump is safer because you will never know if one of the triplets gives up. Having said that, the big singles are usually loud. Going with 2 044's like the stock CIS set-up should support your power and as Juan said

"Two Bosch 44s running into a relay that will shut the engine down if it reads lower than xxx set pressure ?"
Old 02-26-2010, 11:25 AM
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Hi Justin, I still have this for sale if you want to make me an offer:

High HP Fuel Pump System

I was planning on running twin 044's for my twin turbo setup. Since then I had a change in direction and will be fitting a fuel cell with a single in-tank Aeromotive A1000 pump.

PM me if you are interested. I am happy to split this up if required.

Richard.
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:58 PM
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I run the stock CIS fuel pump system (Bosch pumps in series). This provides plenty fuel pressure for my +500 hp system (I also use the stock 3.2L fuel rails, damper and FPR). Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable running a single pump with my motor - consistent fuel pressure to my injectors is critical for maintaining correct AFR's and if a single pump failed gradually, it might lean out and burn a set of pistons. Anyway, stock for me - it works.
Old 02-26-2010, 07:06 PM
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I use a single Aeromotive A1000 like this;



Its not noisy, 600lbs/hour at 45psi, -10 fittings. Rated to something like 1000hp. Self-priming but I mounted it down under the fuel cell.
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Old 02-27-2010, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonE View Post
I run the stock CIS fuel pump system (Bosch pumps in series). This provides plenty fuel pressure for my +500 hp system (I also use the stock 3.2L fuel rails, damper and FPR). Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable running a single pump with my motor - consistent fuel pressure to my injectors is critical for maintaining correct AFR's and if a single pump failed gradually, it might lean out and burn a set of pistons. Anyway, stock for me - it works.
I'm no expert, just trying to learn something...if you have 2 pumps, arent you twice as likely for one of them to fail? And if you have 2 pumps, isnt it more difficult to tell if one is failing?
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1982 911 3.2 Indiash Rot Track Supercharged track toy
1978 911 3.0 Lichtbau toy "Gretchen"
1971 911 Targa S backroad toy
Old 02-27-2010, 05:21 AM
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I think this is a recurring theme I am seeing in alot of threads new stuff is either not fitting correctly or failing after a short period of time. The problem is not getting enough fuel it is finding a pump that will operate reliably like my 25 year old "made in Germany" bosch pump. I am not just slamming foreign man. this time because not long ago I had my "made in the USA" edelbrock ele. fuel pump seize up and leave me stranded on the side of the road in my blazer. The problem is that quality control has gone down the tubes in most manufactureing lines and I would like to think it is not so the product fails and you have to buy a new one and their bottom line improves, but lately the stuff has been failing before the warrenty runs out which doesn't do anything but make the manf. look stupid. Years ago it was thought that manf. were designing products to fail right after the warrenty ran out, a tech rep from RCA actually told me that their products were designed for planned obselesence (sp) I know that electronics can actually tell you when they will fail from their operating chara. so what does this mean? Good luck in your quest I hope you can find a pump that has quantity and quality it will be difficult in this day and age. Rant off
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Old 02-27-2010, 05:46 AM
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