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CO is on the throttle body? Also, I'm using a standard non adjustable light... and I'm sure I grabbed the wrong wire.

SO:
1.) clean injectors
2.) time from #1cyl wire to the 10 mark left of z1 by 10mm
3.) check CO.

How do I check CO>?
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Old 03-01-2010, 06:36 AM
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You're setting the timing static with no vacuum advance, yes?
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:16 AM
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The first setting is with vac connected- I haven't done the 4000 rpm test yet- wanted to get idle straight first.

Thanks ALL for your support. I felt like bailing on this project last night when I saw red manifolds
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Last edited by 928worldwide; 03-01-2010 at 07:33 AM..
Old 03-01-2010, 07:30 AM
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Sorry I didn't mean to post with 928ww, not trying to confuse things

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Old 03-01-2010, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 928worldwide View Post
The first setting is with vac connected- I haven't done the 4000 rpm test yet- wanted to get idle straight first.

Thanks ALL for your support. I felt like bailing on this project last night when I saw red manifolds
If you feel like it, try disconnecting vacuum ,(plugging vac line of course), set timing to 0* (Z1) and let it idle (approx 900-1000RPM) and notice if the exhaust glows at that setting. Connect vacuum line to distributor and with timing light see how much the timing jumps advanced.
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 03-01-2010, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WERK I View Post
If you feel like it, try disconnecting vacuum ,(plugging vac line of course), set timing to 0* (Z1) and let it idle (approx 900-1000RPM) and notice if the exhaust glows at that setting. Connect vacuum line to distributor and with timing light see how much the timing jumps advanced.
I always feel like it I'll be tied up (not literally ) tonight.... tomorrow night I'll post findings.

I want to clean the injectors via backflush first.
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WERK I View Post
If you feel like it, try disconnecting vacuum ,(plugging vac line of course), set timing to 0* (Z1) and let it idle (approx 900-1000RPM) and notice if the exhaust glows at that setting. Connect vacuum line to distributor and with timing light see how much the timing jumps advanced.
The idle timing procedure for a '79 US spec car is with the vacuum line connected...10 degrees ATDC is the factory setting. The '78-'79 US distributor has vacuum retard...quite a lot of it actually. If he sets the idle timing to Z1 with the vacuum line disconnected, when he reconnects, I bet he ends up even more retarded than 10 degrees (assuming the distributor is original and functioning properly).
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:07 AM
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Yes, it can be confusing the first time around. As Brian pointed out, Z1 isn't always clearly marked on all cars. Checking and setting the timing is very simple - using an old-fashioned timing light if that's all you have (it's all I've ever had). But yeah, you first gotta be sure where Z1 TDC is. And yes, you must have the signal pickup connected to #1 plug wire or the light won't blink at all.

How to identify Z1? It's at the top of the #1 piston compression stroke (both valves closed, obviously). Pull the distributor cap and slowly turn the engine over until the rotor points to the #1 cylinder wire. That will only get you in the ballpark. To accurately find TDC, you'll need to put a dial indicator down into the cylinder bore to find the point where the piston is at the top of it's travel (or, less conventionally and less accurately, you can drop a short wood dowel down into the cylinder, turn the engine slowly by hand, and watch the dowel's upward travel until it moves no more).

Kinda hard to do given the access to #1. Last time I had my engine out, I dialed in TDC exactly and marked the pully. No more confusion.
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwasbury View Post
The idle timing procedure for a '79 US spec car is with the vacuum line connected...10 degrees ATDC is the factory setting. The '78-'79 US distributor has vacuum retard...quite a lot of it actually. If he sets the idle timing to Z1 with the vacuum line disconnected, when he reconnects, I bet he ends up even more retarded than 10 degrees (assuming the distributor is original and functioning properly).
Yes, I agree. I was hoping this test would indicate is the vacuum diaphragm is functioning properly. Wasn't aware that the vacuum actually retarded the ignition at idle. Damn smog motors.
At 0* static advance, he shouldn't see glowing unless there's something awry with the fuel delivery.
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 03-01-2010, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WERK I View Post
Damn smog motors.
Damn indeed...

This is why my '79 US distributor is getting shelved. Twin plugged, Electromotive crankfired here I come!
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:33 AM
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Jacob,
Have you considered other alternatives in going to twin-ignition? Don't get me wrong, the HPV-1 has been ultra reliable. It's just that with the 1* of crank-position resolution, it still has the dial-an-advance controls on the control unit even with the XDi, if I'm not mistaken. PM or email me if you want to discuss further.

Sorry for the off-topic response guys.
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 03-01-2010, 09:17 AM
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Z1 IS clearly marked, so is 5, 10 ret and 25 adv on the other side of z1

I'll hit it up tomorrow. I did have the sensor hooked to a plug wire, generating pulse- but I don't think it was the #1 wire, and this is what I suspect to be the culprit..... even though 10* lined up with the mark on the case, if it was for #2 then things would be out of whack...

Could ign timing misadjustment cause MEGA SMOKE ?
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Last edited by 928worldwide; 03-01-2010 at 10:41 AM..
Old 03-01-2010, 10:34 AM
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As usual, I didn't get to it when I planned I'll be in there this evening....
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Old 03-03-2010, 06:30 AM
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Which way do you turn distributor to retard or advance? And when you are on Z1 (TDC) is the rotor more to 1 side of the mark on the body of the distributor or dead on? I can not get the hold down stud in the middle of the adjusting slot its either extreme right or left ,is this normal?
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Old 03-04-2010, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
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Which way do you turn distributor to retard or advance? And when you are on Z1 (TDC) is the rotor more to 1 side of the mark on the body of the distributor or dead on? I can not get the hold down stud in the middle of the adjusting slot its either extreme right or left ,is this normal?
Of course I still didn't get to it tonight. I have the cleaner guy bringing me a case of 2+2 pour and I'll use this on my injectors.

As for your question.

Clockwise to advance.
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by h20cooled7 View Post
Which way do you turn distributor to retard or advance? And when you are on Z1 (TDC) is the rotor more to 1 side of the mark on the body of the distributor or dead on? I can not get the hold down stud in the middle of the adjusting slot its either extreme right or left ,is this normal?
Yep, from what I've seen the adjustment is usually near the far end (say the last quarter) of the adjustment slot.

Here's a picture of an '87 distibutor set to about 12 advance...which required machining the slot a little bit (without which, I could get only 8 degrees advance before running out of adjustment room).

Now for the disclaimer: To protect the innocent and to ward off any lawsuits for plagiarism, the following picture is not mine...but just happens to be exactly like mine. Thanks go to the anonymous donor.
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Old 03-04-2010, 08:12 AM
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Hi Mark, thats a pic of my distributor after I lengthened the adjustment slot to get more static advance.
I also had to grind and sand off some aluminum from the bottom of the opposite end because it was coming in contact with the engine tin before I could turn the distributor all the way clockwise in the lengthened slot.

I drew a red arrow to point at a faint scribe mark I made on the flange marking where the adjustment nut was back when the ignition timing was stock.
It shows how much I turned the distributor clockwise to get around 12 degrees at idle with the MSD boost retard module and both distributor vacuum lines hooked up.

It also shows what happens when you use 500 degree engine enamal on the rear tin after stripping the rust off with end brush wire wheels on a die grinder and then phosphoric acid to get the rest... burned it all off around the turbo.
Every time I drove the car for a few weeks there was the smell of burning paint after parking it.

Next time I have it off I'll redo the rear tin with 1200* header paint or barbecue paint and see if that holds up better.
Old 03-04-2010, 09:15 AM
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Thanks for the pics and info! Priceless stuff you can not get in the factory manuals, does any one have a pic of the rotor on top dead center?
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:22 AM
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[QUOTE=JFairman;5217613]Hi Mark, thats a pic of my distributor after I lengthened the adjustment slot to get more static advance.
QUOTE]

But of course I knew that! Thanks for owning up...I'm off the hook now!
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:57 AM
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Skimmed this thread. Did this get resolved?

With a 930 dist that has two vacuum connections, timing at idle with vac retard connected retards timing about 9 -10 deg so it should be near TDC/Z1. It hould then be near 10 deg advance with vac retard hose disconnected.

I good simple test to see if your vac-retard is working is to pull the tube closest to the motor while the motor is warmed up and at idle. If it works right, the motor will speed up.

For a US car, timing should be set at about 25 deg advance at 4000rpm with both lines disconnected. If they are left connected timing would be about -16 as there wold be a vacuum present that would retard timing.

This is a smog setting with timing retarded by idle vacuum for emission purpose. If you then pull the vac retard line, idle will increase. You could plug the vac retard tube and run like this for a cooler exhaust. It is the connection closest to the dist. You might even find your car funs a little crisper off the line.

Some have found that they can advance timing some past stock specs and pick up some power and throttle response. From the little I know about 930 ignition, if you have dicent fuel and are not doing something like runing a 1 bar spring with a stock intercooler you might be able to set timing to euro settings of -29 at 4000rpm. This will give you 4 deg more advance at the other settings. This should give you a bit better low end, power on boost, and improve fuel economy some. However, you should have decent fuel and should know you are taking an educated risk.

Running anymore advance than this requires a method to pull timing back to a safe level on boost. Some use an MSD system that can retard on boost to make up for it. Another want is to modify the Retard Pot to increase boost retard.

I believe a stock US 930 runs at about -16 to -18 on boost. The later C2 Turbo are more aggressive than this but have some safe guards like being able to pull timing back a bit with heat to keep the motor safe.

Last edited by 911st; 03-07-2010 at 07:16 AM..
Old 03-07-2010, 07:13 AM
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