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Group B info and picturs wanted

Anyone have any pictures or info on the 930's build and raced in 1982-3 apx Group B?

I found this:
Porsche 930 Group B / 911 Turbo Group B





"For 1982, FISA introduced new motor racing categories that were intended to provide a more level playing field for manufacturers. Group's 3, 4 and 5 were ditched in favour of simplifed A, B and C classes. Group A was for production cars of which at least 5000 had to be built in any given year. By contrast, Group B required 200 identical cars be built in that same 12-month period.


In both cases, Evolution versions could then be introduced to homologate more extreme competition models. Group C meanwhile was for out-and-out sports racing cars that bore little resemblance to anything you'd find on the road. For this category, there were no production requirements. Porsche had absolutely dominated the Group 5 era with the legendary 935, so they more than anyone else had most to lose. To ensure their enviable winning record continued, Porsche launched the 956 and later, the 962. Like their illustrious forebears, these works and customer run prototypes were normally the class of any field. Unsurprisingly, Porsche went on to dominate the eighties in much the same way as they had before. In addition to the Group C programme, Porsche also built a handful of 911 Turbo's for Group B. Manufactured between 1982 and '83, they were most notably pitched against BMW's M1.

Group B rules stipulated that relatively few modifications from standard were initially permitted. Consequently, the suspension, brakes, bodywork and engine were largely identical to the stock 3.3-litre Turbo. Upgrades included adjustable Bilstein dampers and heavy-duty torsion bars of 22mm and 27.5mm front / rear (compared to 19mm and 26mm respectively). There were also thicker anti-roll bars of 22mm up front and 18mm at the back (the latter being adjustable). Stock 917-style brakes from the production car were used and the wheels weren't allowed to protrude wider than the standard bodywork. Cross-spoke BBS rims were adopted, the fronts being 9.5-inches wide (up from seven) whilst the rears rose from nine to eleven-inches.

Relatively few modifications were made to the engine, displacement remaining unchanged at 3299cc thanks to a bore and stroke of 95mm x 70.4mm respectively. Upgrades were restricted to 935 head gaskets, hot camshafts, a bigger engine intercooler and turbo boost increased from 0.8 to between 1 and 1.4 bar. Even with the standard Bosch K Jetronic injection, Gruppe B 930's were realising 364bhp at 5500rpm and producing 369lbs ft of torque at 4500rpm. The 935-style upright transmission was equipped with an oil pump and cooler and coupled to a clutch that was also imported from the old Group 5 machine. Externally, with the exception of a new competition oil cooler mounted in the front spoiler, these cars remained totally standard, right down to the bumpers. The front storage compartment housed a 100-litre fuel cell, a front-mounted oil cooler and aluminium strut brace. Inside they were stripped of every conceivable luxury, competition seats and a beefy alloy roll cage being installed. They were then brought back up to the minimum class weight limit by applying strategically positioned ballast. The minimum weight limit in Group B depended on a particular cars engine size and because the swept volume of Porsche's turbocharged 3.3 was equivalent to 5-litres, this meant the new car had to be no lighter than 1235kg. Porsche stripped the weight down to around 1150kg and then added the rest to make it legal.

Whereas a normal 930 would have taken 5.3 seconds to reach 100kmh, these factory hot rods could do it in 4.5. 0-160kmh came up in just 9.8 and 0-200 in a mere 15.8. Two cars were built for the 1982 season, chassis 93A 007 00171 for Georg Memminger and 930 970 00069 for Bernd Schiller. 93A' was a factory conversion of Memminger's 1980 930 road car. In 1982 it took World Manufacturers Championship wins at the Nurburgring, Spa and Mugello 1000km races. Meanwhile, 00171 was a regular in the German national series. Four more cars followed in 1983, one for Charles Ivey in the UK (winner at Le Mans and Brands Hatch), one for the Almeras brothers in France (third at Le Mans), one for Michel Lateste (fourth at Le Mans) and another for Edgar Doren (winner at the Nurburgring 1000km). Mid-way through 1983, these cars were permitted to adopt 935 brakes and they went on to win the inaugural Group B Championship by two points from BMW. In 1984 the tables were turned and BMW won comfortably, amassing almost twice as many points as the Porsche teams. By this time it was obvious there was little support for Group B and the category was ditched from the 1985 season. ... "

Old 03-12-2010, 09:12 AM
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Another pic:
Old 03-12-2010, 09:15 AM
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Found some more:

"The Group B 930 suffered a severe weight handicap because the displacement of it's 3.3 liter turbo charged engine had to multiplied by 1.4 (40% increase) which put the car in the 5 litter category (1,235 kg minimum weight). It's slightly modified engine (strictly regulated by Group B specifications) produced a little over 360 HPs that were put on the terra perma using 9.5 inch front wheels and 11 inch back wheels. Regulations would not allow wheels to protrude beyond the standard fenders. Although the car was starved for traction, driver Paul Smith commented on how much fun the 930 was to drive because the tail could be hung out at an "impossible angle". Engine modifications were few. A larger intercooler, longer duration cam (cam height changes were not permitted), and increased boost (standard - 0.8 BAR; Group B - 1.0 to 1.4 BAR) were the only changes made to the 930 engine.

Suspension modification were allowed as long the the original suspension mount points where not altered. Solid mount points and strut tower braces were permitted. Coil over springs were not permitted, but torsion bars size was not regulated. Porsche used 22mm torsion bars in the front and 28 mm torsion bars in the rear. The anti-sway bars were of standard 911 design (solid-through chassis) and were 22mm in front and 18 mm in the rear.

Wheels were 9.5X16 in front and 11X16 in the rear with Dunlop tires (245/575-16 and 300/625-16). The oil cooler was mounted in the front with the reservoir mounted in the front boot. The cars were stripped with full roll cages.

Unfortunately by 1984, it was obvious that there was little popularity for anything other than Group C racing and FIA decided to drop the category at the end of the 1984 season. With no place left to race other than IMSA, where the 934 still dominated, the 930 was retired to historic and club racing."
Old 03-12-2010, 09:30 AM
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Here is some fun, fun, fun, track footage of what seems to be a Group B Turbo.


Prototype C - Porsche 930 - Rouen - Trackside video on CastTV Video Search


edited: Sorry, it is a very realistic computer graphics simulation.

Last edited by 911st; 03-12-2010 at 06:45 PM..
Old 03-12-2010, 09:36 AM
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This image is labeled as Group C but the Strandell team is mentioned in the results of the page you linked.

Strandell Racing Porsche 930 911 – 1984 Group C Silverstone 1000km on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Strandell Racing Porsche 930 911 – 1984 Group C Silverstone 1000km
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Old 03-12-2010, 09:39 AM
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Old 03-12-2010, 09:43 AM
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Wow! Especially love the hood up shot.

My biggest interest is what the intercooler and exhaust looks like as both were supposedly changed or modified.
Old 03-12-2010, 09:51 AM
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Dang, I think that vid might be a video game vid.
Old 03-12-2010, 09:58 AM
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I found two shots of this one referring to it as a Group B 930. Maybe the flairs were added later...



Model : 930 Group B Turbo
Colour : White
Interior : 935 buckets
Engine Size : 3300cc, 450bhp
Transmission : 5 speed
Mileage : N/A
Year : 1976
Date Registered : 1976
Date Last Owner : 1998
Number of Keepers : enquire
Supplying Dealer : N/A
Chassis No : Porsche 930 Group B Turbo
Engine No : To Follow
Options : full race trim, spare BBS wheels with wet tyres, adjustable boost gauge, 935 rear wing, 935 brakes
Comments : competed in 1983 and 1984 1000kms world endurance series with outright wins. Fully restored to Swedish Bo Strandell colours. Enquire for full spec, or visit showroom
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Old 03-12-2010, 10:09 AM
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I've got an image of the IC taken from the April 2002 edition of 911 & Porsche World. I believe the policy on Pelican is not to allow copyrighted images. It I'm incorrect let me know and I'll post it.

The IC covers the engine and looks like a larger version (length) of the stock IC. It also appears there is a fresh air intake located next to the IC that is the width of the IC and four to six inches wide. The IC is black with what appears to be a sheet metal cap running horizontally along the rear facing edge.

There are no images of the headers. Pano ran an article in that same time frame on the Group B but I let it get away. I don't remember any underside shots in it.
Old 03-12-2010, 12:20 PM
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That prototype C is some awesome footage. Amazing car control... Never seen it before. Thanks for sharing it.
Old 03-12-2010, 03:03 PM
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Miguel,

I am not sure but I think that is not real and more like a video game output. I do not see any trees or clouds moving and everything is perfect including the imperfections like skid marks. Not sure though. I had fun watching it in HD and freezing it from time to time. You can even see inside the car and the details like wheels.

Thus, real of fake????

................

Looked at it again and it is a fake!
Old 03-12-2010, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911st View Post
Another pic:
I've been trying to find a set of these wheels, they are Ronal Turbos.

I almost bought a car on ebay just to get the wheels.
Old 03-12-2010, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copbait73 View Post
I've been trying to find a set of these wheels, they are Ronal Turbos.

I almost bought a car on ebay just to get the wheels.
Ronal Turbos are back in production in more modern sizes, they are called R50 Aero.

Ronal R50 Aero wheels | VW Tuning Mag


I think I read somewhere that the ones used on these cars were modified from a smaller set, I can't think of where I saw that info but I will see if I can dig it up.
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Old 03-13-2010, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by willtel View Post
Ronal Turbos are back in production in more modern sizes, they are called R50 Aero.

Ronal R50 Aero wheels | VW Tuning Mag


I think I read somewhere that the ones used on these cars were modified from a smaller set, I can't think of where I saw that info but I will see if I can dig it up.
The set I was looking at were 7X15 and 8X15 with the normal 911 pattern and offset, but fabrications could work if the proper pattern is there. Good idea.

I like the R-10s, not so much these.

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Old 03-13-2010, 07:02 AM
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Looking again at the 911 & Porsche World image of the intercooler the length appears to be a combination of the stock IC plus the length of the AC condenser filling the stock tail grid opening.

The images in this article are recent and one has to assume the IC is as supplied by Porsche for the Group B. Earlier I said the rear tank section appeared to be sheet metal but upon further examination of the image I now think what I am seeing is a shadow line.

The Group B is an interesting car mostly known for the Group B cams. Paul Frere covered it in a couple of his books. I studied it extensively for suspension and ride height details trying to determine how low one could set ride height using a basically stock suspension. I never was able to learn if the front spindles had been raised.
Old 03-13-2010, 08:54 AM
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The Panorama article has no photo's of the engine. Some interesting comments though. The article stated that none of the 7 cars that were raced were built at the factory. Porsche just provided bodies with cages installed. Another one was made from a converted 930 street car. I wonder where the engines came from, 934's? Charles Ivey apparently is a Porsche dealer in the UK. Maybe someone can wander over there and get the scoop. Definitely an under-served story; not many pictures out there.
Old 03-13-2010, 02:01 PM
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Jim,

Please consider posting a picture of the IC. Many have posted CR pictures. As long as we do not get carried away it dose not seem to be an issue. If it is, they will probably just delete it.

I sent you a PM a couple of days ago w my email if you want to send any info to me directly.

Thanks

Also, any details on the build would be cool to know. So far we have the wheel sizes, cam specs, boost range, spring rates, and that it had to be mostly based on a stock car.

Do not know if there was any porting, different rods, gears...
Old 03-13-2010, 04:59 PM
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The first link I posted had this and the wins posted:


Chassis History
93A 007 00171 1982, sold new to Georg Memminger, Germany.
930 003 0009 1983, sold new to Charles Ivey, England.
930 670 0590 1983, sold new to Equipe Almeras, France.
930 870 0039 1983, sold new to Michel Lateste, France.
930 870 0419 1983, sold new to Edgar Doren, Germany.
930 970 0069 1982, sold new to Bernd Schiller, Germany.
Old 03-13-2010, 05:01 PM
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I'll work on the image Sunday and post it later with acknowledgments. What I scanned was a full page so I'll clip the engine bay section and post it.

I have some details but mainly on suspension, tires and setup as that was my interest. I'll go back a find the references in Frere's books but you have most of the information already listed. Group C was the big dog at the time and the Group B was never promoted.

Old 03-13-2010, 08:59 PM
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