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i raised required fuel by 25% which richens the whole VE table by that amount. I am running 60# injectors that can support the power numbers i'm making... And I totally understand that e85 power peaks at a different "lambda" than gasoline. But since Lambda is lambda is lambda how can it get skewed the farther off stoich I go?

A = 1

Z = 26

if I say B or 2 it means the same thing regardless of the fact that the digit has a different shape. I'm not sure this can be explained anymore than it has been. lambda numbers are what they are PERIOD . The gauge could display the word boobies when at .8 and dog when at 1.0 That doesn't change the fact that it's still the lambda reading

Old 03-19-2010, 07:40 AM
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It should display dog at cruise and boobies at 1.0bar. I think that is the problem.
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Old 03-19-2010, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmatera View Post
The gauge could display the word boobies when at .8 and dog when at 1.0 That doesn't change the fact that it's still the lambda reading
Oh snap - WHERE do I score me on of *those*??? BRIAN GET ON IT!

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| '58 TR3A | '01 S8 | '95 S6 6gang | '88 M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 03-19-2010, 10:06 AM
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bbrbrbrbrrrrrrrrrumsky
Old 03-19-2010, 12:52 PM
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while i could stare at those fun bags all night here is my dyno sheet

Old 03-19-2010, 04:30 PM
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Displacement = 3.3L or 0.0033 cubic meters
Lambda 1 = 9.8 A/F
RPM = 5500
Boost = 1.2 Bar or 221 KPA absolute manifold pressure
Inlet Man temp = 35 C (just a guess, but typical) or 273 + 35 = 308 K
Gas Constant = 0.287 KJ/Kg*K

Mass of air = [(221)(0.0033)]/[(0.287)*(308)] = 0.00825 Kg of air for every 2 revs

(0.00825/2)*5500 = 22.7 kg/min or 1361 kg/hr or 3000 lb/hr of air

3000/9.8 = 306 lb/hr of fuel

306/6 = 51 lb/hr of fuel per injector

You are running way over 20% rich so you need at least 20% more fuel: 1.2 * 51 = 61.2 lb/hr

But you have 60 lb/hr injectors, so you're done.

You can go back to staring at pictures of boobs now.
Old 03-19-2010, 06:17 PM
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yes, at 10.5 a/f (7.0 lambda) I saw 104% duty cycle on my injectors. I am aware that the 60's are done

BTW, my peak inlet temp was 115*F
Old 03-20-2010, 09:21 AM
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Airflow = 3000 lb/hr
Boost = 1.2 bar (120 kPa)

3000/2.2 = 1364 Kg/hr

Volume flow = [(1364)(.287)(293)]/98.1 = 1169 m3/hr or 1169/3600 = 0.32 m3/sec

Pratio = (101 + 120)/101 = 2.19


Plot that on the map below. You are in no man's land. No wonder your intake temps were so warm, only 60% compressor efficiency. You should go up one turbine housing size also (no map for that unfortunately). You need bigger injectors and a bigger turbo. Things are adding up fast! I hope you do it though. E85 is a great answer for a turbo motor. Watch out for the Bosch fuel pumps (if that is what you are using). I think some of them use a white plastic around the motor armature the disolves when exposed to alcohol over time.

Old 03-21-2010, 11:47 AM
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what turbo was this compressor map from thats posted?
do you have one for the k27S turbo that you could send me or post it?
this is very valuable info.

thanks,
Fred
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:36 AM
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wow, she is off the map. I ran it at the drag strip sunday. She went 12.75 @ 117.75mph at a race weight of 3190 (with me). The boost would slowly decrease as rpm climbed so I turned up the boost controller to try and compensate. At the top of the rpm range the boost always ended up around 16.5-17psi. My lambda was still around 7.0-7.3 all the way down the track (i added a few pounds of fuel pressure) and she ran like a champ.

speedy squirrel- thanks for all your technical input, i'm a simple guy, my knowledge of performance turbocharging is from the school of hard knocks... it's interesting to see the math behind it all.

Yes, i'm still on the stock fuel system. I'm watching carefully as the the bosch pumps don't like alcohol. I had a bosch 044 on my turbocharged mustang and it ran on E85 for 3 years. But when i broke the transmission the car sat for over a year. When it ran again the bosch was dead.
Old 03-22-2010, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmeister View Post
what turbo was this compressor map from thats posted?
5327 988 7200
930.123.013.04
aka the "K27 7200"


[QUOTEdo you have one for the k27S turbo that you could send me or post it?
this is very valuable info.[/QUOTE]

No, I only know the Porsche part number at this time (930.123.003.03). I need the cross-reference number (5327 XXX XXXX) to come up with the correct compressor map. Do you have it? I suspect it is the same compressor though.
Old 03-22-2010, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmatera View Post
yes, at 10.5 a/f (7.0 lambda) I saw 104% duty cycle on my injectors. I am aware that the 60's are done

BTW, my peak inlet temp was 115*F
Holy cow!!! 104%??? duty cycle... WOW

I was thinking of running 85 or 100lb injectors in mine when I run E-85. This is what I wanted to talk to you about over the phone. I think max we should be at 80% duty cycle. The bigger you go though, the idle will get harder to tune in.....

On a related note, I have a friend with a twin turbo big block producing over 2500 HP in a four door AMC Rambler.... he is using E-85... and loves the stuff!!
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:59 PM
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If you're going to swap for bigger injectors you should consider the Bosch EV14 injectors. Nice numbers on the strip.
Old 03-22-2010, 11:06 PM
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turbobrat - yeah we need to get in touch but i've been so busy with work I don't seem to have a moment to think during the week.

I've got a set of 80Lb injectors here i'm going to try. They can function at a lower duty cycle than the 60's so i may get an improvement in idle quality
Old 03-23-2010, 08:08 AM
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New update.....................

new dyno numbers with billet wheel S262

1.3 bar

450.3 rwhp / 436 rwtq

I'll post graph tomorrow
Old 08-11-2011, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmatera View Post

new dyno numbers with billet wheel S262

1.3 bar

450.3 rwhp / 436 rwtq
Nice numbers! Dynojet, Mustang or? What level of octane?
Old 08-11-2011, 05:57 PM
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It's a dynapac dyno and the car is running E85
Old 08-11-2011, 06:35 PM
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Well that works!
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:32 PM
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you feel comfortable running 1.3bar (18.8 PSI) on your stock internal engine? I know your fuel and spark is modern, but I thought the issue with higher boost is hitting cyl pressure limits? I'm not sure where to top off my boost, currently I have ob fuel cut at 1 bar. Nice numbers by the way!
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:59 AM
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Time to hit the strip again or are they closed now?

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Old 08-30-2011, 02:49 AM
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