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beancounter
 
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Weehawken, NJ
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Anyone fitted a complete 964 turbo intake to their 930?

Hey folks,

I'm looking for those with experience in this area to share ideas. I have a Kokeln intercooler kit that came with the complete 964 turbo intake kit. Some of you may remember last summer I aborted the installation due to fitment problems the day before I drove the car down to Carolina for Turbopalooza. Here is the thread for reference/photos.

Incoming! Kokeln I/C "charge air cooler" - questions on install

Well, after getting back from that trip I started the rebuild shortly thereafter, so the intercooler and intake has been sitting. Now that the engine is pretty much together, I am working on getting this thing fitted and am really unhappy with the fitment of the plastic 964T intake pipe and silicone elbow. It is possible to get these pieces together, but only barely. With A LOT of wrestling, I can fit everything together, but the clamped connections between the plastic intake pipe and the rubber elbow at the metering housing and at the elbow going into the compressor housing are not able to be fully pushed on. Its as if every piece of the system is 5mm too short. The turbo is correctly positioned and fixed in place by the bracket, so no ability to move things there.

I basically have two ideas at the moment:

1) ditch the 964T intake and use the stock down pipe going into the compressor housing. This will require that I fit a new piece between the elbow and the where the factory BOV housing used to be (a part that every other Kokeln kit I've heard of comes with). This piece needs to transition from 80mm OD (3.14") to 70mm OD (2.75"), and must be about 130mm long. The 80mm (3.14") seems to be a hard to find size, and I think 3" won't fit properly. I have some ideas as to where to source a pipe for the transition, or I could see if Kokeln will sell one to me a la carte (if they are even available). With this route, my 964T plastic pipe and elbow will be up for sale if anyone wants to give this mod a go.

2) Keep the 964T plastic intake pipe, but find a suitable elbow connector to use in place of the 964T silicone elbow going into the compressor. The 964T elbow is 90 degrees, with very short legs. It also is offset a bit. There are photos in the thread link above to give you an idea what it looks like. I think an elbow connector with a little more length and "adjustability" would allow the platic intake pipe to be fitted securely, and still have a good connection on to the compressor housing. I've been searching endlessly on google for something like a 90 degree hump hose or maybe even a bellows type hose. I just can't seem to find anything that looks like it will work. Any suppliers or alternative ideas welcome. I'm thinking maybe a hose that is not even silicone...some other aerospace material...sort of like the heat exchanger hoses, only it must be airtight.
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Jacob
Current: 1983 911 GT4 Race Car / 1999 Spec Miata / 2000 MB SL500 / 1998 MB E300TD / 1998 BMW R1100RT / 2016 KTM Duke 690
Past: 2009 997 Turbo Cab / 1979 930
Old 03-23-2010, 07:57 AM
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Jacob,

Something is f----- up here. I installed an Koklen IC some years ago. It was a piece of cake and took about and hour. I never removed any of the down tube or turbo elbo. My kit that came with the IC had 2 hose clamps, 1 964 style Elbo with BOV socket, BOV, a cast alum. reducer pipe, and stand offs to support the back to corners of the IC. I think you have the wrong kit. I don't know what kit it is but it doesn't look anything like mine.

Send me your Email address and I'll sent an install manual I found here.
david.cole@teamqualityservices.com

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 03-23-2010, 12:01 PM
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Jacob,

Here is a nice shot of everything installed. Notice we don't see any of the plumbing you have !!!!




Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 03-23-2010, 12:07 PM
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beancounter
 
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Cole,

I know that you and pretty much everyone else who bought the Kokeln kit got a different set up and it was easy to install. I'm the "lucky" guy who got the 964T intake instead...I called Kokeln and they don't have the aluminum reducer pipe that I would need to use the factory down pipe. I hear that they are getting out of the 930 business anyhow, and it was difficult for me to get this I/C...could be one of the last few in their inventory.

I'm having Burns Stainless fab me up a reducer pipe with the correct specs...another $84 sucked into the black hole that is the 930.

Anyone want to buy a 964T plastic intake pipe and elbow
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Jacob
Current: 1983 911 GT4 Race Car / 1999 Spec Miata / 2000 MB SL500 / 1998 MB E300TD / 1998 BMW R1100RT / 2016 KTM Duke 690
Past: 2009 997 Turbo Cab / 1979 930
Old 03-23-2010, 12:13 PM
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Jacob,

Sorry I was after the fact here. Take a look at siliconeintakes.com the carry about anything in theway of turbo plumbing you could want.

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 03-23-2010, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwasbury View Post
Cole,

I know that you and pretty much everyone else who bought the Kokeln kit got a different set up and it was easy to install. I'm the "lucky" guy who got the 964T intake instead...I called Kokeln and they don't have the aluminum reducer pipe that I would need to use the factory down pipe. I hear that they are getting out of the 930 business anyhow, and it was difficult for me to get this I/C...could be one of the last few in their inventory.

I'm having Burns Stainless fab me up a reducer pipe with the correct specs...another $84 sucked into the black hole that is the 930.

Anyone want to buy a 964T plastic intake pipe and elbow
I ordered a blown six 965 IC and I was told I will need the 930.110.382.00 elbow. I'm not sure on the difference in the 964 and 965 but I think I could use the elbow.
I'm not sure what the plastic intake pipe is though.
Old 03-23-2010, 06:50 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Jacob, I installed a Kokeln a bit ago and had a devil of a time with it. Nothing fit the 930. When all was said and done the results were good but the fitment still bad. It didn't seat on the throttle or on the turbo up-pipe. None of the posts fit correctly.
The turbo down-pipe for the 964T will not properly fit the 930 chassis. It helps if you use a longer 90* hose into the turbo. It is worth retaining this plastic pipe if you can make it work. It looks like in your previous thread you did get it to clamp together.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 03-23-2010, 07:38 PM
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beancounter
 
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Forwheeler, I believe the elbow you're looking for is this one:



I have that part, but I will be using it on this install. Its the elbow between the downpipe and the compressor inlet that I might sell.

Brian...your experience sounds like mine. I can get the I/C to fit on the throttle and up pipe, but will need to fab up brackets to bolt it down. In the other thread I was able to fit the 964T down pipe and elbow, but only barely and I was VERY concerned about it holding together. After all the effort that I've put in to the engine, I'm not about to compromise in this area. The stock down pipe fits securely so that's what I'll use. I just want to get this thing on the road now. Somewhere down the line I may try again, but if if fabrication is involved, I think you may as well throw away all the factory parts and route the intake air through the wheel well...I've seen this on Robert's car (Turboo934) and also Craigs 930"RS".
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Current: 1983 911 GT4 Race Car / 1999 Spec Miata / 2000 MB SL500 / 1998 MB E300TD / 1998 BMW R1100RT / 2016 KTM Duke 690
Past: 2009 997 Turbo Cab / 1979 930
Old 03-24-2010, 05:47 AM
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jwasbury
that is the pipe I was looking for. I can't find one anywhere right now.
Old 03-24-2010, 09:38 AM
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Jacob and Forwheeler,

What in the world is the advantage to cutting a hole in the inner fender and running the air intake that way.

You don't need a factory elbow to do this. The outlet port of the BOV can be placed anywhere between the Fuel distributor outlet and the turbo inlet. The inlet port of the BOV can be anywhere between the turbo outlet pipe and just before the throttle plate. It does not have to be part of the Fuel distributor
outlet elbow.

You can buy silicone elbows with a pipe flange, weld on flanges, bolt flanges,
bov flanges, and reducers.

They are available here:

Ebay
siliconeintakes.com
boostcontroller.com
stmtuned.com

Some examples ofdfferent configurations:










Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 03-24-2010 at 01:44 PM..
Old 03-24-2010, 01:39 PM
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Jacob and Forwheeler,

What in the world is the advantage to cutting a hole in the inner fender and running the air intake that way.

You don't need a factory elbow to do this. The outlet port off of the BOV can be placed anywhere between the Fuel distributor outlet and the turbo inlet. The inlet port off of the BOV can be anywhere between the turbo outlet pipe and just before the throttle plate. It does not have to be part of the Fuel distributor outlet elbow.

You can buy silicone elbow with a pipe flange, weld on flanges, bolt flanges, bov flanges, and reducers.

They are available here:

Ebay
siliconeintakes.com
boostcontroller.com
stmtuned.com


Some examples of dfferent configurations:









And Brian had a nice example of a bolt on flange pictured in forwheelers thread.


Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 03-24-2010 at 01:54 PM..
Old 03-24-2010, 01:48 PM
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Hey Cole,

I believe this particular example you posted happens to be Craig's car, and you might notice it goes through the inner fender. The advantage to running the air intake this way is that it can be 3" ID the entire length of the intake tract. I've not seen any other intake setup on a 930 (with stockish turbo and I/C plumbing locations) that does this. The stock intake pipe has to be reduced in size and/or twisted arund like a pretzel to get past the motor mount area in the corner of the engine bay. I've been told that reducing restriction in the airflow before the compressor will improve the quickness of spool up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cole930 View Post
What in the world is the advantage to cutting a hole in the inner fender and running the air intake that way.
Some examples of dfferent configurations:

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Jacob
Current: 1983 911 GT4 Race Car / 1999 Spec Miata / 2000 MB SL500 / 1998 MB E300TD / 1998 BMW R1100RT / 2016 KTM Duke 690
Past: 2009 997 Turbo Cab / 1979 930

Last edited by jwasbury; 03-24-2010 at 04:27 PM..
Old 03-24-2010, 04:25 PM
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Jacob,

You have to understand I'm really old and 6 months of chemo killed even more brain cells than the age has but I still don't see it.
I measured, at a min, 6" more tube to get it to the turbo if you go outside the inner fender. The pipe diam. is increased to 3" the full length, which by the way, still has to be reduced to 2 3/4" to connect to the turbo. Now by my old Geometry calculations, we used slide rules then, we have just added another 84 cu. in. of volume to the intake trackk.
Now I'm not the brightest bulb in the box but I am not buying faster spool up by adding 84 cu. in. more volume I have to fill before the turbo spools up. So the logic here is remove the recirculation assy. and add the 965 BOV to increase turbo response then add back 5 times the recirculation assy. volume by increasing the dia. and length of the intake track. I don't think so. But it looks cool and it does make it easier to get at things on the left side of the engine compartment.
Bye the way, that is Craig's car, and a "VERY NICE CAR IT IS" I used that pic. because it showes, perfectly, how you don't have to use the 965 elbow.
Take a look at the sites I posted and you'll find what you need.

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 03-24-2010 at 07:30 PM..
Old 03-24-2010, 06:01 PM
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