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-   911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/)
-   -   Anybody installed abs on a early 930? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/535690-anybody-installed-abs-early-930-a.html)

full quack 04-08-2010 10:01 AM

Anybody installed abs on a early 930?
 
Hey folks,
Has anybody installed a proper complete ABS system on a '76-'89 930? I have no interest in paying someone to install it, so I only wish to hear from D.I.Y.'ers. What did it cost you, and what system did you use?

Mark

kenikh 04-08-2010 12:16 PM

intriguing. sub'd.

Noah930 04-08-2010 02:28 PM

ABS on a 930?! Why not swap in a sportomatic, while you're at it?

A930Rocket 04-08-2010 04:25 PM

After flat spotting many an expensive slick at the track, there are days I wish mine had it....

full quack 04-08-2010 08:22 PM

Ok guys,
Here it is, I drive my car every single day to and from work, 52 miles a day! I live in the greater Seattle area, it rains (a lot), it snows, it hails, it freezes, it rains some more, occasionally it's sunny.

My commute is part semi-open country roads, part freeway, part stop-n-go traffic. I run BFG kdw's, their great in the dry, ok in slight wet conditions, down right suck in a down pour.....I would really like A.B.S.

With all these dim witted-cell phone talk'n-latte drink'n-make up putti'n on-crack smok'n-blind ass idiots on the road every stink'n day...... I would really like A.B.S.

I can lock the front up at will, at anything under 50mph in the dry. I can slide the front ANYTIME in the rain, 30-50-100 doesn't matter.....I would really like A.B.S.

Do you see my point of view now....."I think you can"

Mark

pdx930 04-08-2010 09:23 PM

Mark,

I noticed in one of your old posts on torsion bars that you have pagid blues up front and stock pads in the rear. When I first got 930 last fall, I had lots of trouble with the fronts locking up. I dug into the brake system and found pagid 537 pads (stock replacements) up front and original 1987 vintage hard as rock textars in the rear. Swapped in new pagid stock replacements on all four corners and the front / rear balance is *MUCH* better now.

Just a thought,
Bob

proffighter 04-08-2010 11:44 PM

Here is a conversion kit, but it is a bit pricy:

http://www.albertweb.de/fahrzeugkatalog/911/911-bremse/911-930-porsche-abs-nachruest-bremssystem.html

911st 04-09-2010 07:15 AM

Not an expert but a 930 because of its large scrub radius front suspension is not a very good candidate for ABS.

Add to that no power steering...

With ABS shifting brake bias from side to side you would probably have a big wrestling match with your steering wheel.

Other wise you would need to lengthening your front A arms a bunch, re-engineer the geometry to zero out the front scrub, and go with a different front wheel offset.

It would be easier and cheaper to trade up to a C2 Turbo or put your motor in a NA C2.

I am just guessing.

full quack 04-09-2010 08:02 AM

Hey there Bob,
Thanks for the possible re-direction with pads. I've had Porsche stock on all 4 corners, Pagid orange on the fronts with stock rears & Pagid blues on the front with stock rears (present configuration).
The only differance I've seen is that the stock on all 4 corners didn't have much bite, the Pagid orange on the front worked great, but squealed like a stuck pig, the pagid blues bit well & are quite. Maybe I sould try some Hawk pads or something similar.

Maybe Craig from Seattle/Kirkland will chime in, as he does brakes for a business....hint hint wink wink!

Mark

full quack 04-09-2010 08:48 AM

Hello Roland,
Whoa...a bit pricy?.....13k euro...oooch! I think sourcing parts out of a wrecked late model Porsche might be more feasable.
Mark

gumba 04-09-2010 08:53 AM

I run Goodyear F1 GS-D3 on the turbo in the winter, and on the race car when it rains at our DE events. The Goodyears do surprisingly well in the rain.
I've been using Performance Friction pads on the track and like them a lot better than the Pagid Orange. The last a lot longer and are about 1/2 the price. You might check them out for street pads.
I've been trying different pad combination's at the track to deal with front lock up. It seems the problem is the big tire patch in the back vs the small one in the front, 345 rears and 245 fronts. I made a dual master cylinder set up for the race car which should take car of the problem. Smart Racing/Fabcar make one for the later years cars that would be pretty much a bolt in on the turbos, you might take a look at that. My misc. ramblings.

JFairman 04-09-2010 09:22 AM

My car had the pagid stock replacement pads on all 4 corners in it when I got it and they worked very well.

When I replaced them I put in Hawk HPS (high performance street compound that doesn't seed to be hot) on all 4 corners and they work great too.
The stopping power on the street seems similar to the Pagid 537 pads and they don't squeal.

Found the best price and free shipping on 4 here: Discount Performance Brakes - Brake Pads & Brake Rotors- RACEShopper.com

jrottn 04-09-2010 10:14 AM

Mark
Not sure if this helps but will throw it out there
My friend and turbo guro was thinking about trying to go abs using 944 stuff I believe
He was too busy to ever try it but I will try and pick his brain over the weekend

slyguy 04-09-2010 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by full quack (Post 5285034)
...With all these dim witted-cell phone talk'n-latte drink'n-make up putti'n on-crack smok'n-blind ass idiots on the road every stink'n day......

I'm not blind...

WANNA930 04-09-2010 09:18 PM

Although ABS would be the ultimate the cost and engineering would be extreme. Think of the testing OEMS do on their systems.

Your best bet is to play with tire choices and possibly wider tires. You are at your limit of adhesion already. Possibly a brake bias adjuster to dial in where you want not where Porsche set it. Do you have stock width stuff now?

BF Good aren't the best all season tire out there. I have a 01 740i Sport which handles and stops incredible for a 4dr car. Anyway I switched from orig Mich Pilot AS tires and car was all over in the wet. The Mich AS work so well I honestly almost never even feel the ABS kick in but with the BF'S it was on every rain. They are noisy but stick like glue in every weather and yes I drive in the snow. $250-300 a pop. and they are very soft as you will be lucky to get 15-20 out of them driven conservative. It is a 4dr.

TimT 04-10-2010 01:02 AM

Bosch Motorsports make a ABS kit you could use..

Bosch ABS M4 kit

Just 6900 euros

skinnerd 04-10-2010 02:48 AM

For those of us who track and autox our early 911's (i.e. 1973), having ABS would be at the top of my wish list.

Next year, I'll look into this Bosch Motorsport ABS kit.
http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/content/downloads/Documentation/ABS_M4_Brochure_en.pdf

10 settings and geared for racetracks and high performance driving.
Sounds incredible!

911st 04-10-2010 08:31 AM

Ever wonder why late 944's and C2's have different wheel offsets! It is mostly eliminate front scrub radius so torque from one wheel braking and the other not will not be transferred to the steering wheel.

Turbo Body torsion bar cars have huge scrub radius and thus are not a good candidate for ABS.

Also, for the $15k it is going to cost you after buying the kit and re-engineering the front geometry to get the scrub out can buy a lot of tires. If going this way, might as well add a race power steering.

If one has a good limited slip, corner balancing the car so the front wheel weights are more equal can help front wheel lock.

A930Rocket 04-10-2010 08:22 PM

^^^^ At almost $2k for a set of slicks, $15k won't buy that many tires. :(

911st 04-11-2010 09:21 AM

These are vintage cars and at least to me running them as intend is part of the fun (CIS and non ABS). Equalized front corner balance, a good limited slip, and good driver technique can give a more modern race car with ABS fits.

A proper Race ABS would be cool and if done right might should result in faster lap times.

It would probably take some 7-10 years of heavy competitive track use with someone that likes to lock em up to rationalize this purely on a dollar savings basis. 30 tires is a lot of flat spots and it would probably cost more than $15k do to it right.

If one wanted to do it on the cheap, maybe look to a wrecked C2 Turbo as a donner.

One would probably need to graft the full front suspension to get to a zero scrub geometry that will work with ABS on a wide body. Might be able to do it this way for under $5k depending on how many wheel sets have to have there back space corrected. .

I do not know how a production ABS would compare to a proper race ABS system. It may or may not effect lap times in a positive way. I think some of racers that run production cars with ABS find they are faster with the ABS disabled.

If not going for proper front geometry, I think Smart Racing has or is working on a power steering conversion that might help reduce the 'steering effect' that will probably result with ABS on a stock 930 front end.


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