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Amazing.. :-) Pure engine porn....

Thanks for your updates Tom
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1979 930: Garret GT35r turbo, EFI, carerra intake, Link EMS, custom GT2 cams, 98mm JE P/C, 964 crank (stroker), custom valves & ported (XtremeCylinderHeads) etc..etc..
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1986 944 Turbo
Old 08-26-2010, 01:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #81 (permalink)
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Forgot to mention: My latest and hopefully last engine build postponement request to TurboKraft was to thermal barrier coat the piston tops and cylinder head combustion chambers. Being done by a compant recommended by Bill Dicondina.
Old 08-28-2010, 07:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #82 (permalink)
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Tom,

Great and very informative reading. l am looking at EMS upgrading my built 930. I would love to also hear details about the AEM; what is involved in setting it up and making it work, etc. I realize it might be difficult to quantify costs on this as it is merely one aspect of your considerable upgrades.

Also, you might consider selling your 17" and finding some 18" sooner than later. It is becoming difficult to find quality 17" street tires suitable for a build like yours
that don't cost an arm and leg. You should be able to get enough for what you currently have to mitigate a good percentage of of a set of 18s. Just my 2c.

I really appreciate you sharing all this info and including images, etc. It transforms this into something really meaningful to the rest of us.

Subscribed,

JR
Old 08-28-2010, 05:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #83 (permalink)
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Hey JR
Thanks for the nice words. I'll try to get Chris to expound a bit on the matter of AEM. He makes it sound easy to install and tune, but then he's done a bunch of them. And you're absolutely correct about those wheels. I need to get to 18s at some point relatively soon. Until I have the funds, I'll probably just try to get by with widening my rear wheels from 10" to 11" in order to improve traction. Again, thanks.
Old 08-29-2010, 08:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #84 (permalink)
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Great stuff.

I hope it all comes together smoothly.
Old 08-30-2010, 04:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #85 (permalink)
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awesome project
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:13 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #86 (permalink)
 
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This weekend, as my engine build approaches, I got a little bored. So I decided to do a search on the subject of E85 fuel. I've been watching the growing hubbub about E85 from a distance for some time. But my prejudice against corn based fuel and the Beavis and Butthead lobbyists who are inextricably bound up with it has kept me away from any sort of careful scrutiny.

I didn't find all that much on Pelican. A fair amount of skepticism, yes, and a few would-be proponents. Just enough to leave me confused. So I expanded my search into the whole wide world of E85, and found tons of stuff--much of it hearsay and bull doody. For example, there's a persistent belief (or wish) that E85 is equivalent to 105 octane. It isn't. The truth, as far as I can determine, is closer to 94 to 96 octane, Still, not so bad considering that the price is in the realm of regular pump gas.

My next search was into the Japanese hot rod forums--the WRXs, EVOs and others. There I found a much more active community of E85 fans. In fact, there are quite a number of Japanese import
gurus and owners who have been all over E85 for years now. Many of them have been achieving take-your-breath-away dyno numbers and quarter-mile times with the stuff. There are still some doubters among them, but generally there seems to be a much greater receptiveness to E85 fuel than in the Porsche world.

The reason I'm finally looking more closely at E85 now is that in the next few weeks Chris Carroll of TurboKraft will be putting my newly rebuilt EFI motor on the dyno and tuning a couple of different fuel maps. I've been thinking one map at 91 or 92 octane pump gas, and a second at either 100 octane or 110 octane race fuel. E85, at least theoretically, provides an interesting alternative or addition to that plan.

The wisdom among the ricer crowd is that E85 requires higher flow and, therefore, bigger injectors. E85 also results in poorer mileage, but given the low cost, that's no biggie. Anyway, if there were ever a right time to tune my engine for E85, this would be it. There are now over 100 stations in Minnesota with E85, including one near my home. And they're popping up like mushrooms around the rest of the country.

I have a feeling that Chris will probably puncture my E85 balloon. I'm a really good example of the old saying that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing." I know just enough about a whole universe of things to get myself in deep s--t. My choice of those damned CMW heads is proof of that. So if any of you among the Pelican Brain Trust have thoughts to offer on E85, please, for God's sake, do. And save this putz (moi) from his own worst inclinations.
Old 09-05-2010, 01:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #87 (permalink)
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The more I google E85, the less sure I am about octane rating. An awful lot of people are claiming 105 octane. So maybe I was wrong about it being 94-96 octane. Anyone know the absolutely, positively real number?
Old 09-06-2010, 05:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #88 (permalink)
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Tom,

That's a good question, and one of the reasons Zeitronix (not affiliated, I just like there stuff) came out with this little gadget.

Give it a read:

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.htm
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Last edited by WinRice; 09-06-2010 at 06:26 AM..
Old 09-06-2010, 06:20 AM
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Darin Matera (drmatera login here) uses it in his EFI 930 and he loves it.

If it's available locally for you and you convert your fuel system to run on it reliably with no corrosive effects and your set your EFI air/fuel mixture richer for it, it sounds like great stuff.
Old 09-06-2010, 06:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #90 (permalink)
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Contact Pelican member, beepbeep, he's a strong advocate of the stuff.

The Pratt & Miller GT2 Corvettes are using E85 in ALMS with pretty good success over the last several years.
Personally, the ideal solution would be "Flex-Fuel" mapping. One map fuel E85 and the other 91/93 Octane when you can't find the other in your travels. Then there's the whole injector selection thing.......finding an injector that can handle the fuel mapping of two substantially different fuels.
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Old 09-06-2010, 07:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #91 (permalink)
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Tom,
Thought my feedback might be useful - I've been around the RX-7 tuner community for about 10 years (a lot of experimentation with alternate fuels) and also own one of TurboKraft's AEM EFI builds. As I've considered different directions to take the Porsche, I've spoken to Chris about auxiliary injection with the AEM. While he seems more predisposed to more conventional methods of making power, he didn't dismiss the idea of a water/alcohol injection system.

Info on the system I was considering is here -
AEM Water/Methanol Systems for Gasoline Engines - Water/Meth Kits - Wideband O2 UEGO, X-WiFi, EMS Series 2, Engine Management, F/IC, Tru Boost, Gauges, and more Automotive Performance Electronics

AEM appears to have designed a plug-and-play solution that takes into account safeguards to prevent engine failure if the system were to fail. This is the direction I would take, if I were debating between having a system designed for E85 versus layering in an auxiliary injection system designed to work with standard octane fuels.

If you're doing some broad reading on the subject, I recall this thread being useful - Making The Case For The Powered FD: The Fix - RX7Club.com

Rotary motors are perhaps the most sensitive motors to detonation, but make huge power increases on basic build motors with increased boost pressure. The rotary owners have been exploring various alternative fuels for many years now as a result. I have a close friend seeing over 600 horsepower to the wheels on a 1.3 liter engine with E85 and a lot of boost. It's fairly commonplace for pump gas + water injection cars to see in the 500 rwhp range on relatively mildly-built cars.

Speaking specifically to E85 - I suspect you'll find the fuel inconvenient enough to source that this route is not optimal. For people I've known willing to deal with the inconvenience, they have had to pay attention to their fuel lines, injectors and fuel pump, as the ethanol causes issues with the rubber components. You'll also need roughly 2x the injector size to work with ethanol. All things you'll want to consider if you opt to go this route!

Great build thread - I've enjoyed reading your progress!
Best,
John
Old 09-06-2010, 03:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #92 (permalink)
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good stuff. Are you going to install AFR data logging instrument?
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Old 09-07-2010, 12:49 AM
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The AEM logs afrs, air temp, oil temp, throttle position, boost, etc both onto an internal hard drive (subject to space limitations) or onto a laptop connected to the ECU (no space limitation).
Old 09-07-2010, 05:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #94 (permalink)
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AEM is the brand? Which model are you using. I would like to get educated on this. Thanks.
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:00 AM
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As John Burer has eluded to, many fuel systems cannot tolerate E85. The ethanol will corrode metal fuel tanks and fuel lines (especially if the ethanol is sour), depositing the corrosion products in fuel filters and injectors.
Fuel systems have to be 100% plastic ,stainless steel and other proprietary coatings to survive in E85 service.
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:06 PM
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I don't even know where to start. If I didn't know better I would assume each of the replys on this subject were from people experienced in using E85. But i'll bet less than 1% have ever even seen it in person much less used it.

Statements like this --

""I didn't find all that much on Pelican. A fair amount of skepticism, yes, and a few would-be proponents. Just enough to leave me confused. So I expanded my search into the whole wide world of E85, and found tons of stuff--much of it hearsay and bull doody. For example, there's a persistent belief (or wish) that E85 is equivalent to 105 octane. It isn't. The truth, as far as I can determine, is closer to 94 to 96 octane, Still, not so bad considering that the price is in the realm of regular pump gas." --

are why the internet is full of mis-information and why others that come along and search will dig up and then perpetuate as the "truth" about E85.

Do I sound harsh? I should.

Would you ask a virgin what sex is like? Would you take their opinion over an experienced person? I have more on the subject of E85 but it will have to wait.
Old 09-07-2010, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmatera View Post
Statements like this --

""I didn't find all that much on Pelican. A fair amount of skepticism, yes, and a few would-be proponents. Just enough to leave me confused. So I expanded my search into the whole wide world of E85, and found tons of stuff--much of it hearsay and bull doody. For example, there's a persistent belief (or wish) that E85 is equivalent to 105 octane. It isn't. The truth, as far as I can determine, is closer to 94 to 96 octane, Still, not so bad considering that the price is in the realm of regular pump gas." --

are why the internet is full of mis-information and why others that come along and search will dig up and then perpetuate as the "truth" about E85.

Do I sound harsh? I should.
I'm sure your harshness has plenty of basis, but it seems misplaced right here. In Tom's original E85 inquiry, he admits he's no expert, and he sounds very open-minded and curious to learn about this obviously viable option. And so am I! Anxious to hear your input.
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Old 09-07-2010, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmatera View Post
I don't even know where to start. If I didn't know better I would assume each of the replys on this subject were from people experienced in using E85. But i'll bet less than 1% have ever even seen it in person much less used it.
I've been making fuel systems for E85 for longer than I care to remember. Guess that puts me in the 1%
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Old 09-07-2010, 04:44 PM
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Drmatera appears to have taken our questions concerning E85 very personally. That's too bad. Clearly, many of us have questions about E85. Instead of insulting us, he might have educated us.
Old 09-08-2010, 05:17 AM
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