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Stock 3.2 injectors are 19lbs/hr IIRC. I am running 42lb/hr injectors with the stock 3.2 FPR and am seeing north of 85% duty cycle at WOT with an AFR of 11.5
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1983 3.4L 911SC turbo. Sold
Old 05-05-2010, 07:46 PM
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Wow Steve, Stock chip? Any AFM adjustments?
Ben
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:46 PM
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Wow Steve, Stock chip? Any AFM adjustments?
Ben
LOL, I'm cheating. I am running MAP based megasquirt EFI.
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:52 PM
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944 turbo injectors are some times used on a 3.2 for more fuel but you probably still need a higher fuel pressure.

The 3.2 injectors are almost the same as the 3.6 C2 so do not look there. I also run at a higher fuel pressure to support its HP.
Old 05-06-2010, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjf911 View Post
Stock 3.2 injectors are 19lbs/hr IIRC. I am running 42lb/hr injectors with the stock 3.2 FPR and am seeing north of 85% duty cycle at WOT with an AFR of 11.5
I was under the impression the factory 3.2 FPR's didn't raise pressure with boost. Have you confirmed this? Depending on your fuel pressure 42's at 85% would be roughly 428hp...

nice to see another megasquirter
Old 05-06-2010, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by drmatera View Post
I was under the impression the factory 3.2 FPR's didn't raise pressure with boost. Have you confirmed this? Depending on your fuel pressure 42's at 85% would be roughly 428hp...

nice to see another megasquirter
Fuel pressure on my system is about 30-40 lbs without any significant change with boost although I can't log this yet. I actually had purchased a BEGI RRFPR to use when I did my turbo conversion but I decided it would be simpler and more accurate to go with larger injectors since I had complete control over fueling and ignition with the MS. The main trade-off is idle quality with the larger injectors. I am waiting for the MS3x boards to be released to convert to full sequential injection and direct ignition control with LS2's. From what I have read, this seems to be the ticket to get big injectors to idle better.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:36 AM
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my thinking when it comes to fuel pressure regulators is that you want the pressure to decrease at idle/cruise (high vacuum) then increase over base pressure as boost increases because the boost in the manifold is fighting the fuel trying to exit the injectors.

45psi of fuel pressure fighting against 15psi of boost in the intake will significantly decrease fuel flow. So having the fuel pressure follow boost pressure will keep the injectors flowing at thier potential. Having it this way will help you control the inectors better at idle. I'm running the 60LB injectors, the problem isn't my EFI system it's that the injectors have a minimun duty cycle ( 1.5%). when you go below that it becomes unstable and causes a rolling idle. I'm going to switch to 80LB injectors in my car as they can be idled down to .5 %. Since i'm running E85 my 60's are at 100% now, so the 80's will work great for me.

If I keep injector Dc at 1.6% I get a rock steady idle and 13.9 - 14.2 a/f ratio. Cruise I can see 14.9-15.3 a/f without issue.

Are you running a dizzy or the EDIS for ignition?
Old 05-06-2010, 11:28 AM
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Just watched my fuel pressure gauge driving back from our suburban office and I am seeing about 30# at idle, 36# engine off, 39# WOT without boost, and about 47# at peak boost showing a very consistent pressure gradient across the injectors from vacuum to peak boost (0.6 bar) with the stock Carrera FPR and pressure damper. I am seeing about 2% duty cycle at idle but I don't really have my injector dead times well sorted.
I am running parallel EDIS-6 controllers/coil packs for my twin plug setup. I currently am sitting on 16 LS2 coils waiting for the MS3x card to switch to direct control coil-near-plug.
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Last edited by sjf911; 05-06-2010 at 01:18 PM..
Old 05-06-2010, 01:15 PM
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damn, I wish i had known those FPR's would have worked. oh well, atleast i have adjustability with the aftermarket unit.

Are you not happy with the EDIS? or just want to upgrade..
Old 05-06-2010, 01:39 PM
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My guess is the stock FPR is a 1/1. That is for every lb manifold pressure varies, fuel pressure changes. This is pretty typical. Thus, w 7 lbs of boost, fuel pressure should increase about 7 lbs.

Thus, I think we are about a 2.5 bar 1/1. I think there Bosch FPR up to 5 bar and some that are 2/1 for a 2 psi increase per 1 lb change in manifold pressure. It has been a while sense I looked into this.

However, this is not enough to keep the stock injectors with turbo as they are not far from there limit on the stock motor unless fuel pressure is raised more than 1/1 as with Rising Rate FPR.

As we can see the factory FPR increases it's rate with boost. Thus, it should not be an issue if we use a FPR that increases at a factor of more than 1/1 as long as it is dependable and stable. It helps to over come some of the idle quality that comes with larger injectors, might save the cost of new injectors.

I guess the concern being we do not go so high on the FP that we create other issues.

The Bell RRFPR is the standard but again, we might want to look into the Synpase adjustable RRFPR.
Old 05-06-2010, 01:41 PM
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I'm not a big fan of cranking up fuel pressure to make a small injector large. As pressure goes up volume goes down taxing the rest of your fuel system, especially the pumps.
Old 05-06-2010, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmatera View Post
I'm not a big fan of cranking up fuel pressure to make a small injector large. As pressure goes up volume goes down taxing the rest of your fuel system, especially the pumps.
That was a factor in my decision as well. I am running the single stock SC CIS fuel pump.
The EDIS seems to be running fine, it's just that moving to MS3+MS3x gives me full sequential capability and I would like to take advantage of that. Those LS2 D585 coils are just beasts.
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Old 05-06-2010, 03:04 PM
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Steve, what water/alcohol injection system are you using? Injecting where?
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:37 PM
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I suspect it is a matter of limits.

I think the Porsche tt runs a 3.8 bar FPR and there is a 5 bar replacement available for higher Hp applications.

Also Bosch Motorsports makes FPR's up to 10 bar. Probably way to much.

If stock it 2.5 the 3.8 is 50% larger and at one bar might run up to 70psi.

One last thought, with higher pressure might come better atomization.

Last edited by 911st; 05-06-2010 at 09:00 PM..
Old 05-06-2010, 08:45 PM
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Steve, what water/alcohol injection system are you using? Injecting where?
I am using the CoolingMist Vari-Cool II system with a tank in the front (trunk) and a single injector on the outlet of the intercooler.




The injector is hard to see but the small black hose in the upper right terminates at the red ring which is the quick connect for the injector nozzle.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by sjf911 View Post
Stock 3.2 injectors are 19lbs/hr IIRC. I am running 42lb/hr injectors with the stock 3.2 FPR and am seeing north of 85% duty cycle at WOT with an AFR of 11.5
I found this reference after searching the part numbers on my 3.2 injectors
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280150158.jpg

240cc which is around a 24LB/hr injector. sounds more reasonable
Old 05-07-2010, 03:53 PM
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Mine has 930 jugs and slugs, 380cc injectors, with stock components like the ECU (of course chipped), fuel rails, and MAF sensor. It has SC cams and a T-60 0.84 A/R turbo and makes 427whp.
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Old 05-07-2010, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by drmatera View Post
I found this reference after searching the part numbers on my 3.2 injectors
http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/b0280150158.jpg

240cc which is around a 24LB/hr injector. sounds more reasonable
You're correct since they rate them at 3 bar. The Carrera system runs at 2.5 bar so that gives them an effective 19 lbs/hr.
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Old 05-07-2010, 04:42 PM
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Quite a beast you've got there Steve, clean, neat and organised, very cool!
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Old 05-07-2010, 09:31 PM
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gotcha. So the best you could hope for with a higher base pressure (without getting carried away) on stock 3.2 injectors would be around 280-290hp. Damn they cut it close
Old 05-09-2010, 11:18 AM
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