Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
89 930.
 
Benny771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada Ontario
Posts: 783
Garage
Question Car just died!!!! Plz help.

Was driving home for approx. 1 hr when the engine just stopped. Managed to pull over to the side of the road. Car started then drove for approx. 1 min. Sat at the side of the road for an hour, car started and ran for approx 20 min.
Then dead. both times there was a fuel explosion out of the tail pipe approx. 10 sec after it died.
It would not start again....
Tow truck was happy to take 400$.

Question is: Do you think i should look at the coil first, then?????

I will fill you in as i go but any help would be appreciated.

P.S i can still hear the fuel pumps humming away.

P.S.S no spark at the wire or from the coil?...................... Bad coil.... i hope?

Tested the coil + and - . Zero voltage while cranking.

Last edited by Benny771; 05-21-2010 at 09:38 AM..
Old 05-20-2010, 07:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Hirevtuner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 364
I would think coil or ignition box as a guess. The coil is inexpensive to replace. You could always go with a MSD 6al if you don't find a stock box. Best of luck.
__________________
1981 411 rwhp, Ruf intercooler, 964 cams, Turbo Kraft injector blocks, Extrude honed intake, 7006 Turbo, Tial wastegate, RarlyL8 exhaust, MSD6al
Old 05-21-2010, 01:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
89 930.
 
Benny771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada Ontario
Posts: 783
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirevtuner View Post
I would think coil or ignition box as a guess. The coil is inexpensive to replace. You could always go with a MSD 6al if you don't find a stock box. Best of luck.
I have the "whine" from the CDI box... But...
Im still trying to find the DME relay, it is not under the seat.
Old 05-21-2010, 01:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rockwall, Texas
Posts: 8,765
Isn't the DME relay a component of the fuel/ignition systems found on other 911s - NOT the 930 system?
Old 05-21-2010, 02:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
89 930.
 
Benny771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada Ontario
Posts: 783
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930 View Post
Isn't the DME relay a component of the fuel/ignition systems found on other 911s - NOT the 930 system?

It has one for the turbo on this site for my year. So im guessing so.
Old 05-21-2010, 02:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rockwall, Texas
Posts: 8,765
I am pretty sure that the DME relay is a component of the Motronic system - not the K-jetronic system found on the 930s . . . not sure why Pelican would be showing one for your car?
Old 05-21-2010, 02:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
OFF THE BOOST PIPE NOW...
 
A930Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Posts: 7,159
DME stands for Digital Motor Electronics. Our cars DO NOT have them. They started with the Carrera in 84 I believe.

If you have the whine, the CDI should be good, BUT might be a problem. Can you check the coaxial wire from the CDI to the dizzy? Need to make sure your getting a signal back there.

I've said it before, I don't know why we don't have a STICKY at the top to explain all the usual items to check when our cars don't start...
Old 05-21-2010, 04:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,223
Try another coil.

If you have the newer clear anodized aluminum color bosch coil that was made in Brazil, and it's mounted upside down on the fan housing you'll be really lucky if it lasts 2 years. The heat and vibration on the fan housing kills them.

This fact really sucks because thats the only currently made coil other than the epoxy filled permatune coil that will work with a bosch or permatune CDI box.
..and they are not easy to find other than mail or internet order.

My car went through 2 of those new bosch coils in 3 years and the only way out of it is to replace the CDI and coil with MSD.

Now with MSD ignition if I ever have a problem on the road or out of town.. just about every major auto parts store in the nation stocks MSD 6AL CDI boxes and MSD blaster coils.
Old 05-21-2010, 04:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
89 930.
 
Benny771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada Ontario
Posts: 783
Garage
tried another coil today..... No go. But not a Porsche one (generic no res coil). JFairman are you saying this coil will not work to test with?

If it ends up being the CDi i will upgrade to a MSD.....

Now im wondering about the coil in the Distributor
Old 05-22-2010, 07:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,223
From what you said in the origonal post it sounds like it the ignition. Hard to say how the CDI will react to any old coil you might have tried. The resistance or impedance of the primary wires in the coil are important to the CDI.

Not sure what you mean by the coil in the distributor. If you mean the reluctor trigger windings it seems it would work or not work and thats it.

The CDI could probably still whine even if it's broken. The whine comes from the thyristor controller inside of it and not the voltage amplifier or the electrolytic storage capacitors so it may not be working. Electrolytic storage capacitors don't last forever and eventually leak down internally or don't charge up all the way. They work the same way as electronic flash storage caps.

It could also be one of the 6 female spade terminals has come loose in the 6 pin plug that presses into the bottom of the CDI and it's not pressing on to the corresponding male spade terminal on the bottom of the CDI or just touching it intermittantly.

There is a small tab on the side of the female spade terminals that sticks out a few millimeters. It snaps into a groove when pressed into the slot it goes into and locks them in place inside the 6 pin plug so all 6 female spade terminals press onto the male spades when the plug is preessed into the bottom of the CDI unit.

If it's only bent down and not locking it in place anymore it can be dug out and bent back up gently and back in position with a machinest scribe so it will snap into the groove that locks it in place in the plug, but if it's broken off there is no way to lock it into place inside the 6 pin plug anymore and you can't see it if you don't know where to look.
If thats the case a new spade terminal with the locking tab on the side is needed or ditch the 6 pin plastic plug and push each spade terminal on one at a time with needle nose pliers > that would be a pain in the __ even if you know which wires go where...

Or the green coaxial wire that goes from the distributor and into the brown wire harness and then comes back out of the harness at the 6 pin plug under the CDI.
Those are known for breaking down internally after time and repeated fiddling from different mechanics over the years.

Or it could be the ignition coil, and you HAVE to try the right one to know for sure.
Old 05-22-2010, 08:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
OFF THE BOOST PIPE NOW...
 
A930Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Posts: 7,159
As Jim mentioned, there's no coil in the dizzy. You need the right coil to make it work.

I've never heard if a dizzy going bad, so I say check the coax wire from dizzy to CDI, the CDI, and all relays that would keep the engine from running, which are the delayed shut down next to the CDI and maybe the ignition cut off under the seat (although I've removed all that as mentioned).

Any other relays to keep the ignition from running? The overboost relay or is that fuel ?
Old 05-22-2010, 03:20 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
89 930.
 
Benny771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada Ontario
Posts: 783
Garage
Thank-you all very much.
1 Last question before i take it to a friend Porsche mechanic tomorrow morning.
This Relay.... was knocked out the first time i had this issue a few weeks back. I opened the engine compartment and it was partially out of the socket. I pushed it back in and drove on(few weeks ago). Could it have something to do with my car not starting? It is the yellow relay. Link to it, below. Relay for Air Flow Sensor Boost Pressure


Pelican Parts - Product Information: 911-615-118-01-M504

Last edited by Benny771; 05-22-2010 at 04:37 PM..
Old 05-22-2010, 04:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,223
That yellow relay is the overboost fuel pump cut off relay.

It disconnects the grounds to the 2 front fuel pump relays (the 2 red ones at the rear end of the front trunk relay panel) shutting off both fuel pumps if the overboost sensor sees more than 1.2 - 1.35 bars (depending on how old and tired the sensor is) of boost pressure.

It's a safety feature so you don't hurt the motor if the wastegate stops working.

It has nothing to do with ignition though.

By the way, from what I can see in the picture, your engine bay looks real clean and in good condition.
Thats a very good thing.
Old 05-22-2010, 04:53 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
89 930.
 
Benny771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada Ontario
Posts: 783
Garage
Thank-you.
I will keep you posted.
Old 05-22-2010, 06:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mark houghton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Central Washington State
Posts: 3,740
Damn yellow relay.....IF that's your issue, then it's fuel related and not ignition as Jim pointed out.
Pull it out, clean the contacts and spread them out slightly to assure a good tight fit when you plug her back in.
A930Rocket is right - we should have a sticky on this no-start topic.
__________________
Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.
Old 05-22-2010, 06:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
89 930.
 
Benny771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada Ontario
Posts: 783
Garage
Found this last night.....
Half a day too late....
I always have an issue with the search engine here...

6-pin SC/Turbo CDI unit repair documentation

History of Bosch CDI ... toubleshooting info, parts list changes, and schematics ...
Old 05-23-2010, 03:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Finland
Posts: 243
+1
I am afraid I think may have joined the club.

Came here from this thread
Fuel Leak

Almost too embarrassed to tell, but I did crank the engine with ignition wire pulled out of the coil. I am sure the engine run after that, though, so will still check wires, in case something has become disconnected.

- Some simple "no start" or "no spark" trouble-shooter would always be helpful (like expect 12V from here, 0V from elsewhere... etc.)
__________________
'76 930

Last edited by Highway-Star; 06-06-2010 at 12:37 AM..
Old 06-06-2010, 12:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
89 930.
 
Benny771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada Ontario
Posts: 783
Garage
Good luck.
Mine was the CDI box, replaced it with a MSD. Approx 200$. + labor.
The easiest thing to check.... If you have a timing light connect it to the coil wire, if it does not flash........ Prob the CDI.
Old 06-06-2010, 05:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Finland
Posts: 243
an update to the most recent: the car is running again

Not quite sure what happened, but here is what I have done:
- removed intercooler
- fiddled with wires here and there (no change, spark still missing)
- measured from coil if there would be voltage, key turned to position where fuel pumps are running, 0V.
- cranking car, could see perhaps 0.2-0.3V from coil
- then removed connector from CDI, measured 11.5 V from cable going to port no. 8. (Ignition turned ON)
-- other cables going to CDI ---> 0V
- put back in place the CDI connector
- was at this point very unhappy, about to leave car for the day, but then thought I will just one more time crank the car ... and guess what ... she started right up

Quickly put intercooler back on, and re-tried starting, and yes, she is starting fine now.

Quite mysterious, but I am rather happy now. One thing I have noticed in engine bay, is poorly looking cables, and connectors (such as CDI) was badly corroded, almost like connectors metal had disappeared and there was whitish residue (corrosion) left. Really would like to replace all fuel lines in engine bay, and all cables, but not sure if it is possible engine in place. Would appreciate any opinions about how to do it (is it possible to replace all cables with engine in place etc.).
__________________
'76 930
Old 06-06-2010, 08:06 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,731
Benny, did you...

need a tach adap. for your MSD install? Philip
__________________
87 930 GHL/Rarlyl8 dual/Garretson/GT3582R/1 Bar/Wevo shift, mounts/Meth inj/LC-1/Custom Fuchs/Carrera intake manifold/Xtreme Carrera heads P&P/3.4/DR 993SS cams/ Mahl/Pauter/JE/Niresist/ARP/twin plug coil packs/8.25:1/KEP stage 2/twin tials/close 2,3,4th. MS3Pro Evo install in progress. 500+ HP, BTSOMP Dyno
Old 06-06-2010, 11:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:13 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.