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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Aftermarket Intercooler Height vs Stock Shroud

I have developed an intercooler to fit in the factory position and want it to have the largest cooling area possible given the constraints of 100% stock fit.
Most aftermarket intercoolers are quite tall and most don't fit well. What are your experiences with the tall aftermarket units and what had to be done to fit them?
Do any of them retain the stock shroud?
I have purchased a few aftermarket IC's while doing my research on this but do not have the stock grill and shroud for a comparative fitment test.
Any and all experiences and suggestions welcome.
Thanks -
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 05-28-2010, 08:46 PM
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Brian,
one thing to keep in mind developing a IC maybe:

I have a 87 930 with G50 swap, the G50 was installed from previous owner.
As you might know, with the G50 swap the engine moves backwards ~20mm.

Installing a RUF IC on my car made it neccessary to cut the engine hood a little.

IC shroud don`t fit anyway, with or without G50 swap.

Falk
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:50 PM
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I currently have a Garretson 1/2 bay (bought used from a fellow Pelican quite some time ago) . . . its total height is about 4 1/2 inches and does not work with the factory intercooler shroud at all (much too tall)- it also required moving the a/c condensor to the right about 4-5mm (was within the range of the stock mounting adjustments for the condensor).

You might recall that I made my own shroud to replace the stocker :

Intercooler Shroud - Home Brew !!


I think it would work with the rear wiper motor, but I had already removed mine befor installing the Garretson.

Let me know if you have more questions or want additional measurments etc.

Ron
Old 05-29-2010, 08:05 AM
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Brian,
I have the Kokeln and the clearance, after the shroud was removed, was less than a 1/4" from the top of the IC to the bottom of the rear deck.
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Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 05-29-2010, 08:15 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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That's what I figured. I bought a Kokeln and a B&B when researching intercoolers. Neither fit the stock location but with a little work they mounted on.

What I need to know is if removing the shroud is acceptable to the masses, or is a 100% bolt-on that keeps the factory shroud more appealing?

On another note I recieved my temperature measuring/testing equipment yesterday and am stoked to try it out! I'm gonna put all 4 intercoolers I have to the test!
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 05-29-2010, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
......................snipped..................... .

What I need to know is if removing the shroud is acceptable to the masses, or is a 100% bolt-on that keeps the factory shroud more appealing?

On another note I recieved my temperature measuring/testing equipment yesterday and am stoked to try it out! I'm gonna put all 4 intercoolers I have to the test!
That is a good question. If I were to do it all over again, I guessed I would have dumped the AC condenser in the wing, fitted a full bay w/shrouding. Of course, I live in the Northern Climes and that may not be an option in the South.
I just don't know if shrouding in a half bay will be that effective since it would appear the fan is going to pull in air from an area of least resistance and that would be through the AC condenser. All I know is when I open the lid immediately from a drive, that Kokeln IC is HOT!!!.

P.S. Thanks for going the extra yards in testing those 4 IC's. Nice to know a product is researched like yours before delivery is made to us consumers! Good luck!
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Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 05-29-2010, 10:09 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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In a situation where there are many places for air to enter the engine bay a shroud will direct the air that is above the intercooler to go through it instead of around it. I built a shroud for the B&B and Kokeln and foud that after a drive both were cool to the touch. Unshrouded they were too hot to touch. So if those folks with taller aftermarket intercoolers have not built a shroud they are loosing a lot of efficiency. I'd venture to say a properly shrouded stock intercooler might even perform better than a larger unshrouded intercooler. That is what I intend to find out by recording the outlet temperatures.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 05-29-2010, 02:21 PM
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Press on!

I need a bigger inter cooler.

I've pulled all the A/C crap, so I vote for big!

If you offered a shroud too, that would be cool.
Old 05-29-2010, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
In a situation where there are many places for air to enter the engine bay a shroud will direct the air that is above the intercooler to go through it instead of around it. I built a shroud for the B&B and Kokeln and foud that after a drive both were cool to the touch. Unshrouded they were too hot to touch. So if those folks with taller aftermarket intercoolers have not built a shroud they are loosing a lot of efficiency. I'd venture to say a properly shrouded stock intercooler might even perform better than a larger unshrouded intercooler. That is what I intend to find out by recording the outlet temperatures.
What does the shroud look like? I'm currently shroudless.
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:24 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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I made a frame for the gasket that mounted it to the deck lid. I can post a picture if you want to see it, nothing fancy just functional. I'll have to figure out a more factory-esque method for my intercooler.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 05-29-2010, 08:00 PM
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Brian I have an old half bay Garretson on mine and have a rubber gasket that seals up to the tail in the original spot. I see a lot of people running these intercoolers without the rubber gasket. Do you think it would work on your intercooler? Just an idea....
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87 930:G-50 5 Speed, Powerhaus Headers, K-27, Garretson Intercooler, RarlyL8 exhaust and 1 bar boost....
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Old 05-30-2010, 02:31 PM
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I had a B6 Long neck IC and it is possible it was made by monkeys but with a little modification I made it fit without a rear wiper.

FWIW all I wanted was a much more efficient IC that fit properly with all the other bits like A/C, wiper, air reg, etc. to remain. Chris @ TK has helped me greatly with this and I am awaiting the arrival of my new IC. As I am not looking for monstrous HP a half-bay long neck was all I required.

If you can make either a half-bay long-neck or stock style IC which is more efficient than stock which looks good, fits well and retains other standard equipment most people will be happy. For high HP seekers and no AC lid condensor, a full bay could be an option. Also making a new shroud would be a great seller too imo.
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Old 05-30-2010, 04:27 PM
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varyat
 
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Brian: I have an 87 930 with a BB IC- no shrouding. My fabrication skills are laughable so was thinking... If you are building shrouds for various IC's I would be very intersted in purchasing a shroud for my BB. Mind you, this does not have to win any beauty contests- just create a functional seal and fit into a stock decklid without removing the rear wiper. Do you have any interest in such a project? Anyone else?
Old 05-31-2010, 10:22 AM
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RUF schrouds there IC and even runs a snorkel to the deck lid for the intake on there later conversions. So dose the 993TT including a snorkel. Thus, sounds like a good idea.

Porsche schrouds all there turbos after 1989 and gets the AC condensor and even the oil cooler away from the motor's intake and cooling air.

We also do not want the intake air to get pre heated as it rases the intake temps and has a direct impact on the IC out let temps is my understanding. Thus, it might be worth while to make sure there is a direct path at WOT ,or even seperate ducting, to fresh air.

Corkey Bell says to not discount the cooling effectiveness of the IC tubing and end tanks. I think this means that if you have a choice to run air over them to do so. I do not think this means we should sacrifice air through the core in any way.

I do not know if this is any use to but here is a picture of the shroud for the Andial sport intercoolers.

Old 05-31-2010, 04:31 PM
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varyat
 
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Thanks 911st! The Andial shroud might just work with some modification.Where did you get this pic- not on Andial website. Any help greatly appreciated.
Old 05-31-2010, 05:30 PM
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Yes, on the Andial site. I think it is the same pic from there cataloge I had some 30 years ago.
Old 05-31-2010, 05:53 PM
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